Who says pointers don't like water.

[tommyboy72]

Here's a slideshow of the dogs cooling off Oklahoma style after a long hot run where the weather warmed up a bit more than I expected.

[ymepointer]

All the shorthair and wirehair owners

[prairiefirepointers]

This is from our excursion yesterday.. My Pointer Stud (Cy), one of my females (Brownie) and my lab, Sooner. Nahhh, Mine don't like water either.

[Wagonmaster]

I had this little female pointer at one time. Her name was Dusty. My horse at the time was "Banjo." We had a trial grounds in the southern part of the Twin Cities we used to call "Chaska." The reason we don't use Chaska any more is that it started to flood out pretty badly. So one day, early summer, I decided to take Dusty down to Chaska to run her. There was a big and very deep pool in the parking lot, probably a hundred yards across. When I was done running Dusty I let her go into the pool to cool off while I unsaddled the horse, put everything away, and put Banjo in the trailer. I went to the water's edge and called her, but she declined to come. She wasn't that good of a swimmer, she splashed alot and mostly swam straight up and down rather than horizontally, but she sure loved it! I tried everything I could do to get her to come in, and after about 45 minutes nothing was working. So I took Banjo out of the trailer, saddled him up again, and rode into the water not realizing it was deep enough to require the horse to swim. Which is exactly what Banjo did, swam out with me on his back, to where Dusty was paddling around. She realized she could not get away, and let me grab her by the collar and sort of float her across the front of the saddle. We then swam back to shore, where I put her in a kennel before I did anything else. I did not want her back in that water, or we would be in and out all day!

So yes they can swim, and here is one GSP owner that will swear to it.

[JKP]

No doubt they can...but I don't see any snow in the air or ice on the water...like duck season up north here!! Our little setter will take off after geese on the Delaware all the time....but as soon as the temperature drops, she's content to see the big "dumb" dogs go get the waterfowl.

[Birddogz]

All dogs like water when its hot. I want to see one break ice for a retrieve, and then sit patiently while waiting for another retrieve. I've never seen one do it. Not saying there aren't any out there, but I have never seen one do it. I have seen Wirehairs, DDs, PPs, etc., but never an EP. If I ever saw one that did, I would want that dog! Most I have seen get very cold if they get wet in windy cold weather.

[ckirsch]

Here we go.

Husker/Birdogz, you've been through all of this on the Versatile site......

[ymepointer]

Ya know, I had one years ago that armed with a neoprene wetsuit I would not doubt she would break ice again and again ...she would do ANYTHING for a mouth full of feathers! It would be hopeless though, for her to do any sittin in the blind

[Birddogz]

Here we go.

Husker/Birdogz, you've been through all of this on the Versatile site......

What did I say that was incorrect? Pointers don't sit in blinds and make retrieves when it is cold. I have never seen one do it. Maybe you have one that will. I have also never seen a pointer do blind retrieves with hand signals well. Just facts of my own personal observations. If you have a different opinion, by all means share it.

[birddog1968]

Mine love it....9 week old white puppy retrieving the big 3 inch bumpers from our pond.

Liver girl is a water nut too.

[birddog1968]

Here we go.

Husker/Birdogz, you've been through all of this on the Versatile site......

What did I say that was incorrect? Pointers don't sit in blinds and make retrieves when it is cold. I have never seen one do it. Maybe you have one that will. I have also never seen a pointer do blind retrieves with hand signals well. Just facts of my own personal observations. If you have a different opinion, by all means share it.

Get over it....really smacks of an inferiority complex that every time something like this comes up a few feel the need to belittle a breed.

See my picture above? Do you really think a dog with that much drive wouldn't try and kill itself for a bird....and you think one couldn't be trained to sit still, or take hand signals....for real?

[birddog1968]

BTW Great pics Tommy and PFP , love em.

[Birddogz]

No I don't. Not in cold weather, and I don't believe most pointers have the hardware to handle hand signals like labs can. heck, DDs aren't as good as a labs, and I freely admit that. DDs/PPs are better waterfowl dogs than pointers are. You may disagree, but I think that if pointers could do it, people would be doing it with them. I have no doubt that a pointer can make a water retrieve. I don't think they can do it in cold weather, and I don't think their memory is capable of multiple blinds. Now, could there be one out there, sure, anything is possible. I'm simply stating what I have seen, and what I have been told by pointer breeders themselves. I'm not hating on pointers, I'm simply seeing their limitations. All dogs have them. A pointer is a bird finding monster. No one would doubt that. I contacted about 6 different pointer men, and they told me that pointers are not capable of making blinds and fetching when it is cold. They told me to get a PP. Maybe they were hating on their own breed.

[birddog1968]

No I don't. Not in cold weather, and I don't believe most pointers have the hardware to handle hand signals like labs can. heck, DDs aren't as good as a labs, and I freely admit that. DDs/PPs are better waterfowl dogs than pointers are. You may disagree, but I think that if pointers could do it, people would be doing it with them. I have no doubt that a pointer can make a water retrieve. I don't think they can do it in cold weather, and I don't think their memory is capable of multiple blinds. Now, could there be one out there, sure, anything is possible. I'm simply stating what I have seen, and what I have been told by pointer breeders themselves. I'm not hating on pointers, I'm simply seeing their limitations. All dogs have them. A pointer is a bird finding monster. No one would doubt that. I contacted about 6 different pointer men, and they told me that pointers are not capable of making blinds and fetching when it is cold. They told me to get a PP. Maybe they were hating on their own breed.

I could care less and don't feel the need to argue it everytime a picture comes up with a pointer in water.

We write our own personal history on these boards and yours is crystal clear. Now you know why I stopped answering your Pm's


Memory on blinds? This shows your lack of training knowledge.....blinds don't involve a dogs memory :roll:


And what your "simply" doing is Hyjacking a thread. Sorry Tommy and everyone else, I couldn't help myself.

[Birddogz]

Here we go.

Husker/Birdogz, you've been through all of this on the Versatile site......

What did I say that was incorrect? Pointers don't sit in blinds and make retrieves when it is cold. I have never seen one do it. Maybe you have one that will. I have also never seen a pointer do blind retrieves with hand signals well. Just facts of my own personal observations. If you have a different opinion, by all means share it.

Get over it....really smacks of an inferiority complex that every time something like this comes up a few feel the need to belittle a breed.

See my picture above? Do you really think a dog with that much drive wouldn't try and kill itself for a bird....and you think one couldn't be trained to sit still, or take hand signals....for real?

Inferiority complex? That is a laugh. Pointer guys have THE biggest inferior complex of any dog men I have been around. Pointers are the best at this, pointers are the best at that, they have no down side. Mention a weakness and they flip out, just like now. How rich.

[Birddogz]

No I don't. Not in cold weather, and I don't believe most pointers have the hardware to handle hand signals like labs can. heck, DDs aren't as good as a labs, and I freely admit that. DDs/PPs are better waterfowl dogs than pointers are. You may disagree, but I think that if pointers could do it, people would be doing it with them. I have no doubt that a pointer can make a water retrieve. I don't think they can do it in cold weather, and I don't think their memory is capable of multiple blinds. Now, could there be one out there, sure, anything is possible. I'm simply stating what I have seen, and what I have been told by pointer breeders themselves. I'm not hating on pointers, I'm simply seeing their limitations. All dogs have them. A pointer is a bird finding monster. No one would doubt that. I contacted about 6 different pointer men, and they told me that pointers are not capable of making blinds and fetching when it is cold. They told me to get a PP. Maybe they were hating on their own breed.

I could care less and don't feel the need to argue it everytime a picture comes up with a pointer in water.

We write our own personal history on these boards and yours is crystal clear. Now you know why I stopped answering your Pm's


Memory on blinds? This shows your lack of training knowledge.....blinds don't involve a dogs memory :roll:

Labs remember the basic location of up to 4 birds at a time. Pointers can't. Pointers also are not able to be a seeing eye dog. They simply don't have the hardware. As a physician and a person who has taken many genetics classes, this is the stuff that breeding develops. Pointers haven't been bred to be retrievers. There is a reason you own a lab 1968. If pointers can do it why do you need anything else? You need it because they can't do it. Why this is so upsetting, I have no idea. Maybe you need to make a trip out west and relax.

[tn red]

Why would you want to use a pointer [any shorthair] to break ice.Tommys pics where of his dogs cooling down Not that a shorthair dog couldnt but shouldnt do it why ask a dog do anythink that could harm it?Huge suprize they are not made to to break ice.So what

[birddog1968]

No I don't. Not in cold weather, and I don't believe most pointers have the hardware to handle hand signals like labs can. heck, DDs aren't as good as a labs, and I freely admit that. DDs/PPs are better waterfowl dogs than pointers are. You may disagree, but I think that if pointers could do it, people would be doing it with them. I have no doubt that a pointer can make a water retrieve. I don't think they can do it in cold weather, and I don't think their memory is capable of multiple blinds. Now, could there be one out there, sure, anything is possible. I'm simply stating what I have seen, and what I have been told by pointer breeders themselves. I'm not hating on pointers, I'm simply seeing their limitations. All dogs have them. A pointer is a bird finding monster. No one would doubt that. I contacted about 6 different pointer men, and they told me that pointers are not capable of making blinds and fetching when it is cold. They told me to get a PP. Maybe they were hating on their own breed.

I could care less and don't feel the need to argue it everytime a picture comes up with a pointer in water.

We write our own personal history on these boards and yours is crystal clear. Now you know why I stopped answering your Pm's


Memory on blinds? This shows your lack of training knowledge.....blinds don't involve a dogs memory :roll:

Labs remember the basic location of up to 4 birds at a time.

Those are called Marks Einstein

[Birddogz]

I agree Red, but it seems it is literally like pulling teeth to get a pointer guy to admit to a weakness in the breed. They simply beat around the bush. You have acknowledged what is a painfully obvious, but you might be the first on this forum to be as candid on the board.

[birddog1968]

I agree Red, but it seems it is literally like pulling teeth to get a pointer guy to admit to a weakness in the breed. They simply beat around the bush. You have acknowledged what is a painfully obvious, but you might be the first on this forum to be as candid on the board.

And your the only one thinks he needs to hyjack a thread to get someone to admit to something that is off the point of the thread completely......get a life doc.

[Birddogz]

[

I could care less and don't feel the need to argue it everytime a picture comes up with a pointer in water.

We write our own personal history on these boards and yours is crystal clear. Now you know why I stopped answering your Pm's


Memory on blinds? This shows your lack of training knowledge.....blinds don't involve a dogs memory :roll:[/quote]


Labs remember the basic location of up to 4 birds at a time. [/quote]

Those are called Marks Einstein[/quote]

Well as Steve Martin used to say EXCUUUSE ME! I think you get the point. You own a lab for a reason. As I say, beating around the bush.

[Birddogz]

I agree Red, but it seems it is literally like pulling teeth to get a pointer guy to admit to a weakness in the breed. They simply beat around the bush. You have acknowledged what is a painfully obvious, but you might be the first on this forum to be as candid on the board.

And your the only one thinks he needs to hyjack a thread to get someone to admit to something that is off the point of the thread completely......get a life doc.

When someone says "who says pointers don't like water", it comes off like, hey, they can be used for waterfowl. I wasn't the only one that responded in that way either. I wasn't being mean. It would be if i posted a thread that said, "Who says a lab can't be a pointing dog." You think a few pointer guys wouldn't have some fun with that? I am happy though, at least some pointer guys have admitted they are not invincible. There is a first for everything.

[birddogger]

Nice pictures guys. I don't have pointers now but I have never had one or seen one that wouldn't swim, especially if it was hot, and I have seen them retrieve birds from the water when it was pretty darned cold. They are not water fowl dogs but most of them do like water.

Charlie

[tn red]

I agree Red, but it seems it is literally like pulling teeth to get a pointer guy to admit to a weakness in the breed. They simply beat around the bush. You have acknowledged what is a painfully obvious, but you might be the first on this forum to be as candid on the board.

Weakness? Im saying i know of nobody wanting to do that ,i know my dogs will do it but it would be poor judgement on my part same way your longhair shouldnt be put down in 90 deg heat for hours

[ACooper]

I agree Red, but it seems it is literally like pulling teeth to get a pointer guy to admit to a weakness in the breed. They simply beat around the bush. You have acknowledged what is a painfully obvious, but you might be the first on this forum to be as candid on the board.

And your the only one thinks he needs to hyjack a thread to get someone to admit to something that is off the point of the thread completely......get a life doc.

When someone says "who says pointers don't like water", it comes off like, hey, they can be used for waterfowl. I wasn't the only one that responded in that way either. I wasn't being mean. It would be if i posted a thread that said, "Who says a lab can't be a pointing dog." You think a few pointer guys wouldn't have some fun with that? I am happy though, at least some pointer guys have admitted they are not invincible. There is a first for everything.

Dude are you going to ruin every thread on the board?

[birddog1968]

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

[Birddogz]

Exactly. I would never argue that point. It doesn't get over 90 to often in ND.

[Birddogz]

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

I am on 4-5 forums. This one and sports forums. I have to say that gun dog guys must have the thinnest skin of any forum I have ever seen. I never prevericated. I never got nasty. In fact I simply was agreeing with a post from another poster who was thinking the same thing that I was. Don't take things so hard. It is like dealing with a hormonal teenager. You take offense to things so darn quickly. It is almost like a Napoleon syndrome. Relax, these topics aren't that important.

[JKP]

If y'all don't believe that there are some actual strong tendencies that are breed specific, then we all have been wasting our time for the last 150 years. I would not want to train most longtails to sit, hup, handle on the whistle....can some do it?...well, heck yes...I guess I could get a raccoon to fetch the paper too....but we're not talking about the exceptions. I take pride in what my dogs do well .. that's why I have them...for those that need to say that their dogs do it better...bless 'em if that makes 'em happy. After 50 years in dogs, I've learned most of it is just talking anyway.

I have worked with 15-20 longtails...which is not a lot...and there is a distinct difference in my view as far as trainability and mental makeup and natural tendencies...note I said different...not worse, better or otherwise. The vast majority could not take the pressure and amount of training I demand of a young DD. But then again, my dogs aren't going to cover the ground, and scamper through the Texas scrub like a good longtail.

I do agree that there are a few Pointer guys that just HAVE to crawl to the top of every heap in the barnyard and crow...but that's got more to do with the people and less with the dogs

[ACooper]

I do agree that there are a few Pointer guys that just HAVE to crawl to the top of every heap in the barnyard and crow...but that's got more to do with the people and less with the dogs

This happens in all breeds not just pointers.

[Birddogz]

If y'all don't believe that there are some actual strong tendencies that are breed specific, then we all have been wasting our time for the last 150 years. I would not want to train most longtails to sit, hup, handle on the whistle....can some do it?...well, heck yes...I guess I could get a raccoon to fetch the paper too....but we're not talking about the exceptions. I take pride in what my dogs do well .. that's why I have them...for those that need to say that their dogs do it better...bless 'em if that makes 'em happy. After 50 years in dogs, I've learned most of it is just talking anyway.

I have worked with 15-20 longtails...which is not a lot...and there is a distinct difference in my view as far as trainability and mental makeup and natural tendencies...note I said different...not worse, better or otherwise. The vast majority could not take the pressure and amount of training I demand of a young DD. But then again, my dogs aren't going to cover the ground, and scamper through the Texas scrub like a good longtail.

I do agree that there are a few Pointer guys that just HAVE to crawl to the top of every heap in the barnyard and crow...but that's got more to do with the people and less with the dogs

Great post, and I agree with every word.

[birddog1968]

no body is crowing....I/we are just sick of everytime there is a pointer and water in a picture someone starts this BS up....

Research his posts....I have never said pointers are the end all be all....just that this clown feels the need to start this same tired ole
thing up constantly, hyjacking threads he's got no business hyjacking.

[tn red]

Yes sir & it doesnt get -20 in Tenn for days on end .Really it dont make much difference to me i dont duck hunt but if i shoot it its being retrived back so thats on me if its -20 im not asking mine to do it if im no smarter than that .

[Birddogz]

no body is crowing....I/we are just sick of everytime there is a pointer and water in a picture someone starts this BS up....

Research his posts....I have never said pointers are the end all be all....just that this clown feels the need to start this same tired ole
thing up constantly, hyjacking threads he's got no business hyjacking.

Now I'm a clown. That is very mature. If something is true, it is always true. Gravity is an every day law. So if someone disputes or hints at something I feel is incorrect, I will state my belief/opinion. Maybe I took what the guy was saying out of context, sorry, but it wasn't as if I was being deragatory, or rude. No, that was you. You called me Einstein and now Clown. Seems like someone needs a tad bit more sleep at night, and perhaps a good multi-vitamin.

[birddog1968]

no body is crowing....I/we are just sick of everytime there is a pointer and water in a picture someone starts this BS up....

Research his posts....I have never said pointers are the end all be all....just that this clown feels the need to start this same tired ole
thing up constantly, hyjacking threads he's got no business hyjacking.

Now I'm a clown. That is very mature. If something is true, it is always true. Gravity is an every day law. So if someone disputes or hints at something I feel is incorrect, I will state my belief/opinion. Maybe I took what the guy was saying out of context, sorry, but it wasn't as if I was being deragatory, or rude. No, that was you. You called me Einstein and now Clown. Seems like someone needs a tad bit more sleep at night, and perhaps a good multi-vitamin.

I could tell ya what you need but don't wanna get thrown off the board cause of a hyjacking troll.

[birddog1968]

I can assure you, you would need a lot of help my friend. I think what you need is a nap, and possibly some counseling. You have some anger issues that need ironed out. To let something so trivial set you off, something just isn't wired properly.

Im not angry in the least, just sick and tired of your tired arguments on a nice thread about dogs enjoying a swim.

before it was range,

before that is was water,

before that it was range.

Seeing a pattern here?

You started out real slick tho disguising a desire to own a pointer in order to start a big debate about range, water and how good your V dog is.....

[BigShooter]

As a physician and a person who has taken many genetics classes, this is the stuff that breeding develops.

I'm not always able to follow your sentence structures. Who is a physician? "As a physician & a person" ? I thought all physicians were persons. In this sentence where is the subject stuff defined?

You should start a thread doing a real good job of pointing out all of the inadequacies of DDs, based upon your own dog & your limited experience with DDs. After more than 30 years, apparently some people still have a hard time relating to others and think that personal opinion of the purported inadequacies of others or others' dogs based upon limited experience should be well received. Critical thinking is not characterized by inappropriate statistical extrapolation of small numbers based upon insufficient experience and observation. Some people never mature beyond the ability to provide criticism.

Birddogz, take a stab at answering the question below:

What defines a breed? It's a question that I struggle with.

Leaving out appearance, please list qualities that are unique to DDs *, or sufficiently different from other pointing breeds such that that trait is easy to identify.

* The original quote was changed from Brits to DDs.

[ckirsch]

Nobody claimed that pointers were great cold weather waterfowl dogs. The thin coat obviously disqualifies them from that, just as a wire's coat can be a liability in warmer weather. It will be in the mid-eighties for this weekend's South Dakota grouse opener, just as it often is during the early weeks of our pheasant season. What type of coat will be advantageous then?

No one breed is best at everything. Pointers obviously have their strong suits, as demonstrated by their performances in field trials. Speed, endurance, point, back, nose, and style are their strong points. Unfortunately (I guess) they will not be featured on many goose hunts on the Sportsmen Channel, and they wouldn't be the first breed selected for those specializing in blind retrieves. They coats do not provide as much protection in heavy cover as do those of wirehaired breed. Pointer's retrieving might fall short of some of the versatile breeds, but it's probably far better than what they are typically given credit for. The wirehaired breeds are clearly better-equipped for cold water work. (For the record, I've never seen a DD seeing eye dog, either, but I haven't yet figured out what that has to do with anything.)

Birddogz, you've frequently outlined your perspective of pointer's shortcomings on the versatile site, and now here. If you are really that down on them, why were you PM'ing me about where to get one? If you don't like them, don't run one, but there's no need to belittle them. We all have different preferences, priorities, and expectations of our dogs.

You've told us in previous threads that you are a teacher, coach, and physician, and have homes in Nebraska, Carolina, and now North Dakota. You are obviously a very educated, multi-talented, and wealthy man, so why you stoop so low as to insult and physically threaten others is a bit of a mystery. Lighten up.

[Birddogz]

Kirsch, I wasn't the one getting angry. 1968 was. I was having a discussion. To qualify, I am a teacher, and a coach. I sold my practice 3 years ago, pocketed some cash, and now teach. Being a Doctor was actually a very boring and mundane life for me. Working with kids is far more rewarding, and worthwhile to me. I have made my fair share of money as well, but I am not super-wealthy. I do enjoy fishing all summer in Florida and Hilton Head.
I never said once that I wouldn't own a pointer. I like them a lot. I just get tired of some guys who act as if they have no down side. I just started an entire thread on the down side of a DD. I can hear criticism of my breed, and not get fired up. Pointer guys seem to freak out at the notion that a pointer might have some liabilities. I am "lightened up", I assure you. No anger here.

[prairiefirepointers]

"Boomer" owned by one of my clients in Las Alamos New Mexico. He sent these pics last fall. Said the water temp was 36 degrees in the river there. He said he will send pics of Boomer duck hunting this fall. Can't wait to see em. Love seein pics of our dogs doing well.

[birddog1968]

Please show proof that someone here said pointers have no downside or can do all the things you said they can't do.....


I'll wait. Bet is you will not be able to find that information in this thread, because nobody said any such thing.
You fabricate an argument and then try and assign it to folks with pointers.

again please find what you accuse in this thread....We/I will wait.

[tommyboy72]

As far as me typing "Who Says Pointers don't like water", many of the versatile dog handlers knock the pointers for their lack of water retrieving ability, not all but some of the "other breed" owners consider this a weakness. As far as understanding and responding to hand signals, all of my dogs respond to a whistle and hand signals, that is one of the first things I teach. I use the whistle to get their attention and then raise my hand and wave it toward myself to get them to come in from long distances, I blow the whistle and point a direction when I want them to change direction and start to hunt in front of me when I decide to change the direction I am walking and even my young 7 month old can do this. It is not rocket science and yes those are fairly simple commands but it shows that pointers can respond to some of the same training as labs. Also I have seen pointing dogs that just simply refuse to enter the water even when it is over 100 degrees out, my English Setter and the sister to my 7 month old male pup Reb both despise water. If I want them to go into the horse tank or the kiddie pool in my backyard I have to grab them by the collar and then splash water up on them while I hold them still, so not all pointing dogs like water even when it is hot. Pointers tolerate cold water about like my fat a#$ takes hot, humid beach weather. Body type has a lot to do with it much like fat guys like me hate the heat and really skinny people hate the cold pointers can't take the cold water very well but I hunt in super cold weather here and have my dogs out with me in it. Ask anyone who has been down here in the winter and hunted with me from this board it gets pretty darn cold here when the wind wips up. I believe it was in the low teens or below when Ron came and hunted with me and when Steve came down it was -30 or lower with the windchill. The dogs were out in it and they take the cold ok just not the cold water.

[birddog1968]

Great photos PFP, love em....nice looking animal there !

[prairiefirepointers]

I contacted about 6 different pointer men, and they told me that pointers are not capable of making blinds and fetching when it is cold. They told me to get a PP. Maybe they were hating on their own breed.

Truth in writing to the old addage "the limits of a good dog, is his master/trainer"

[tommyboy72]

Looks like prairiefire just proved my stereotype wrong with his example of that fine looking pointer in his pics.

[birddogger]

I believe it was in the low teens or below when Ron came and hunted with me and when Steve came down it was -30 or lower with the windchill. The dogs were out in it and they take the cold ok just not the cold water.

When Ron came and hunted with you? Where was I, in the hotel room under the covers? I believe it was 1 degree our first morning out.

Charlie

[Birddogz]

I contacted about 6 different pointer men, and they told me that pointers are not capable of making blinds and fetching when it is cold. They told me to get a PP. Maybe they were hating on their own breed.

Truth in writing to the old addage "the limits of a good dog, is his master/trainer"

There you go again. No limits to the dog, only the trainer. The fact is some stereotypes are there for good reason. The more I search, the more I find them to be true. After contacting half of a dozen pointer guys, they seem to see it how I do. The only people who seem to see pointers as being able to do most everything are the guys on this forum. I have never said my dogs were better than pointers as you insinuate. They are different. The pointer breeders I spoke with were very up front about their dogs. Verstile work was not their speciality, if that was what I was looking for, I should look into GSPs, PPs,etc. I'm glad a guy can get his pointer to retrieve in the water in rthe summer. How that makes the dog a better "gundog" in the cold, I have no idea. I have never heard anyone say a pointer won't swim, I have heard peopole say they won't do it in the cold, when the ducks are flying. If it is merely a game of fetch, then alright, but on a forum that is titled gundog, I surmised that it had hunting implications.

[birddog1968]

"Boomer" owned by one of my clients in Las Alamos New Mexico. He sent these pics last fall. Said the water temp was 36 degrees in the river there. He said he will send pics of Boomer duck hunting this fall. Can't wait to see em. Love seein pics of our dogs doing well.

Since when is the grass brown, the shrubs leafless and water 36 degrees in Ks. in summer :roll:

[Birddogz]

Bring that dog to ND. The sun is shining and it is beautiful in that pic. Duck hunting is best in sleet and snow when the wind is blowing 30 mph. The worst day for duck hunting is a sunny bluebird day. Anyone who waterfowl hunts knows that. The dog can retrieve in the water, that is great. Take him on a duck hunt on the Missouri River in November in ND. He won't like it. If you are going to use him in the south, then fine, but he isn't going to be a northern retriever. That is all I am saying. I'm sure you will argue, but then again what don't you argue? I say the grass is green and the sky is blue. I await your bashing.

[Birddogz]

I'm done. You win. Pointers are fantastic duck dogs. That is why so many waterfowlers think of them first when they think of a duck dog.