big lump on her side

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:57 pm

Can't see any wounds, or breaks in her hide. No Scabs anywhere near the lump

feels pretty firm, like a muscle. I massage it a bit and its tender but not hurting her too bad, she acts normal and happy just ate/drank and has been going potty

The lump appeared in 1 day, got bigger and seems to have stopped getting bigger. Its not round either, but elongated

can't figure out what it might be?? That tiny spec above the swollen area is just a stitch of brown fur, not a wound

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:03 pm

Haemotoma, seroma, or histoma. Have it needle aspirated.

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:14 pm

one of my kids did say she ran into the door, must have been pretty good for him to remember it.
Sometimes when they open the sliding door for her they might not get the slider slid back enough and she'll blast thru.

She always waits for me to say ok, or come in. But when I'm not home

wonder if a bruise could develop into a lump a couple days later?

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:13 am

Sometimes grass seed awns that are inhaled migrate to the lung and present as an abcess in that area. Get that dog to the vet and get a fine needle biopsy.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:12 am

+2

Could be a bee sting or anything like that, but in that area, you need to get it confirmed STAT.

Brittguy · Post by **Brittguy** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:48 am

I agree with Ricky TIcky Shorthairs this could be very serious and it progresses quickly. Take her to a vet and get biopsy for actinomyces/nocardia. Do this before any antibiotics so it will be accurate.I went through this several years ago. One day a lump size of a marble on ribcage, next day I couldn't cover it with my hand. Not sure where you are located but it is most common in midwest, not to say it couldn't happen anywhere.
If you wish I can email you a file containing treatment. My vet was at a loss and I got instructions from a vet in Kansas which my vet was happy to follow.

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:05 am

Yep agree with Doug, no idea where ya live, but that looks exactly what I had on my Jack dog as well, turned to be a seed awn, it had actually started to grow, and his happened the same way, he slid into a tree and that pushed the seed out through his rib cage area and away from his lungs and we were able to remove it then, you could actually see the path the seed traveled from the x-rays it started in the front chest and went straight for the lung area the collision with the tree helped alot....Better get em to the vet.......

Dude nice toenails by the way.......J/K

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:15 am

I have had 2 dogs that got grass seeds in them. One made it, one didn't. Went through surgery with the one that didn't make it, and the other got by with antibiotics and a drain.

Mark Wasserman's Cutter dog got one that migrated to his spine, and got embeded in one of his vertebrae. (lost him too)

It can get serious fast.

Doug

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:28 am

"when you hear hoof beats, dont start looking for zebras"

I agree the geass awn thing is a serious issue, but i would say given the history and location of the lump your looking at a seroma/hematoma. the pics look like its right on top of the wing of the ilium, which is part of the pelvis, and a long way from the lung. its a perfect spot for a big juicy bruise caused by running into the sliding door.

other posters are right, a needle aspirate would tell you alot. dog doing okay otherwise??

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:25 am

dog dr wrote:"when you hear hoof beats, dont start looking for zebras"

I agree the geass awn thing is a serious issue, but i would say given the history and location of the lump your looking at a seroma/hematoma. the pics look like its right on top of the wing of the ilium, which is part of the pelvis, and a long way from the lung. its a perfect spot for a big juicy bruise caused by running into the sliding door.

other posters are right, a needle aspirate would tell you alot. dog doing okay otherwise??

+1

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:29 pm

I took her to the vet today, she did a needle draw but couldn't suck anything out. Said it didn't feel like a cyst or pocket and the shape was wrong.

Her best guess was seroma, she's running a slight temp but just off normal.
give the dog a course of antibiotics and use a heat pack if I can.

gave the OK to hunt her for tomorrows opener but take it easy, no big deal she's not fully trained anyways so cannot just let her run.
If its a madhouse a the pheasent release site I'll just postpone until midweek.

Other then the lump she's acting fairly normal if not a titch lazy.

right now she's irritated, I got an annoying beeper in her bed

she hates that locator beeper!

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:00 pm

***update***

The lump is still there, I run my finger and think I can feel fluid squirting under my finger from one side if the lump to the other.

When I took her to the vet she diagnosed seroma, but was unable to draw any fluid by needle, but I don't think she tried very hard either as the dog was carrying on and squirming and this vet was pretty "soft" to causing pain to an animal.

I am thinking about trying myself to draw off fuild, will it help heal and make the lump go down by doing so?
I got no problems doing some minor needle, staples and such work, grew up doctoring all kinds of critters on the ranch.

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:43 am

if the dog is doing fine otherwise, i would leave it alone. its unlikely, but theres always the chance of introducing infection where there was none before.

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:34 pm

The lump would not just do away, I messed with it a little bit just kinda rubbing to see if I could feel a cyst or someting. The next morning it was way bigger.

Took her to the vet and she cut the lump open. Vet said it was a trauma and had loose tissue and fatty beads like little BB's rolling around in the wound. She said it looked as if it was pinched pretty bad and did a good bit of trauma under the hide and seperated the hide from its underlying layers. The vet inserted a tube about the size of a pencil. The vet said she scraped out quite a bit of those fatty beads and that the lump would never have healed or went away on its own.

yuch, it made a mess draining all over the dog and its still draining the next day later although its slowed down.

vet said to leave the tube in for 5-7 days.

well, at least now I know what it was, wish I knew what caused it. Could have been a couple things, one I ran her over with the ATV, I was letting her ride the foot well of the ATV moving from one grouse spot to another and she purposfully let her hind end slide off the foot well and her rear legs got sucked under the tire. I was climbing a pretty rough steep and very rocky trail. But that was late june or early july and she didn't get the lump until October.

or the kids say the had the door cracked open a little and she blasted into it, yelped a bit. That would be right too, but wouldn't think that would cause enough traume for this.

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:23 pm

just thought I'd update this

she is still having problems, I got no clue, the vet has no clue
I think its time to go down to WSU or something.

As I posted before the vet opened up the lump and installed a drainage tube and it stayed in for a good 8 days as ordered by the vet. After that though the holes would start to heal up but then would fill up with fluid, so we got into this routine of expressing fluid when it got swollen and letting it heal with the lump getting smaller each time. I think the lower end of the lump is mostly done now, but the upper end of the lump has just opened a new hole, I think perhaps she must have bitten it open or it just opened in its own while I was at work, this is where the top of the drain tube had been installed. I expressed some gray/brown dead fatty beads and it seems to be healing up now. Her left side looks better now.

Now her right side is swollen up, this side hasn't been an issue and the vet never touched this side. It feels as if it needs to be opened, cleaned and drain tube installed as well. I wonder why the lump didn't surface just after the trauma and showed up so many months later?

really wishing she'd just heal up already, she's lazy and lays around the house. The new lump on her right side feels warm too.

really tempting to just shave it, disenfect then nick the hide on my own to get it draining.

jlp8cornell · Post by **jlp8cornell** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:13 am

she is still having problems, I got no clue, the vet has no clue
I think its time to go down to WSU or something.

Very good idea. This has been going on for way too long not to have an actual diagnosis. Plus you mention she has less energy which is also a concern.

I wouldn't open this up on your own. Unless you know what you are doing, you could create a whole new set of problems.

Time to get a 2nd opinion.

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:24 am

jlp8cornell wrote:
she is still having problems, I got no clue, the vet has no clue
I think its time to go down to WSU or something.
Very good idea. This has been going on for way too long not to have an actual diagnosis. Plus you mention she has less energy which is also a concern.

I wouldn't open this up on your own. Unless you know what you are doing, you could create a whole new set of problems.

Time to get a 2nd opinion.

+1

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Sun May 01, 2011 2:45 am

update

The thing is still going on, she's been to the vet over and over.

got no clue, the last operation the vet was very aggressive in trying to figure out what it was, 2 drain tubes...really cut the dog open and removed a lot of dead looking tissue.

had my fingers crossed and the dog seemed to be healing up nicely save a couple small boils I attributed to "left overs".

Now the boils are back in full force, she's got a boil on her left flank the size of a quarter she chewed open or something, it was a hard spot that I didn't think was a fluid boil like the previous ones and though it was from the surgury. She chewed it open anyways and now has a gaping hole there leakin fluid all over. Tonight I get home from work and find a purple boil on her right flank, I open it with a sharp knife because it wasn't going to last the night anyways and would have ruptured on the carpeting or someplace. She also got a boil on her leg, hasn't had one there before., It was on the outside of the leg in the meaty portion above her knee.

at a total loss, vets think its a grass seed wandering around under there..I don't think so, seems if it were a grass seed it'd make a lump on one side not both sides at the same time.

I'll take some pics tomorrow, err today I guess..its late

jlp8cornell · Post by **jlp8cornell** » Sun May 01, 2011 5:35 am

The thing is still going on, she's been to the vet over and over.

Same vet?

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun May 01, 2011 6:00 am

I would seek an autoimmune specialist.

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Sun May 01, 2011 1:28 pm

Left side

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Right Side

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

VizslaGirl · Post by **VizslaGirl** » Tue May 03, 2011 9:26 am

I would seek a second opinion -this looks very similar to a case of panniculitis (auto-immune disease) that we diagnosed not too long ago. I would consult a dermatologist, or another vet.

Good luck!

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Sat May 28, 2011 8:51 pm

did a full round of testing this last visit, sent samples off to a lab at my insistance. They came back negative for cancer, auto immune and some other stuff. Lab tests showed some stuff consistant with a deep puncture type wound, inflamitory tissues.

vet really worked the dog over, she has a scar from the bottom of her flank all the way across her hips and back down to her other flank. I call her frankendog

this last surgury seems to have done it, no more lumps or bumps seem to be growing *cross fingers*

she's got more energy too

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Sun May 29, 2011 6:40 am

from everything you have done for her i can only imagine your vet bills

thats great you have been so committed to finding a solution for her and i have my fingers crossed for you for sure!!.....ruth

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Mon May 30, 2011 7:59 pm

well, I just had to open yet another bubble. It squirted out clear fluid mixed with blood.
found that if I try to wait until the clinic is open its too late, the bubbles kill a patch of fur pretty quick. I bathed the area in betadine and used a sharp razor and nicked an area already cut on by the vet, she didn't even flinch, no yelp no pull away nothing. I think the tissue is just dead there.

her side is so messed up now, this last surgury turned a spot on her side hard and dead. no telling how much nerve damage is there.
I think there is another bubble growing on the opposite side, feels like a hole under the bubble too. Almost like she'd been shot and the bullet passed clear thru, except there were no holes in the hide at first. You can just feel it under the hide.

This last time during surgury the vet had multiple other vets all giving thier own idea, this was like a project dog to them. they are all bewildered.

I'm at a loss, wonder if she'll ever get over this or if it'll get to the point I take that last walk with her.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Tue May 31, 2011 3:50 am

Wow that's not good

Have you contacted the breeder to find out if any of the other pups have similar type issue

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:35 am

have they tried her on any prednisone yet?

shags · Post by **shags** » Tue May 31, 2011 9:02 am

Has that dog been tested for MRSA? (methicillin-resistant staph aureus)

It makes nasty skin sores like that, and it's a disease that's becoming more common in dogs.

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Tue May 31, 2011 12:58 pm

vet did lab work this last go round

no infections, not sure the exact labs they ran but tissue samples were sent off and came back negative. I told them to check for auto immune disorders, infections and cancers.

all the vets in the clinic, some with a lot of experience, all said the same thing. foriegn object floating around under the skin.

I did find out that no one has taken an xray picture of this dog, that amazes me I would have thought that would have been first.

I really wonder if she doesn't have a broken chunk of bone floating around deep inside the body is trying to push out and can't.

the last meds she was on ciprofloxacn 250mg

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Tue May 31, 2011 1:31 pm

It just has that look of a bacterial infection. Reminds me of Impetigo. Those pictures really show it.

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Tue May 31, 2011 1:42 pm

mcbosco wrote:It just has that look of a bacterial infection. Reminds me of Impetigo. Those pictures really show it.

those last pictures are of a lump that was hard, post sugury. and while I was at work she chewed it open and licked it

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Tue May 31, 2011 2:00 pm

these are of the latest sugury, those infected looking sores were removed on this sugury

the stitches and tubes have since been pulled and the full course of antibiotics have been administered.

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Tue May 31, 2011 2:04 pm

we call her "frankendog" now :roll:

shags · Post by **shags** » Tue May 31, 2011 3:35 pm

FWIW some strains of MRSA are resistant to cipro.

Did you specifically ask for a culture/sensitivity, or did your vet give you the specific results if a culture was done? Sometimes the manner in which a culture is taken and transported can affect the results.

Look at the images for mrsa. http://www.staph-infection-resources.co ... l#pictures of staph

Good luck to you and the poor pooch; I really hope you get an answer soon.

ben33127 · Post by **ben33127** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:06 pm

KFhunter how is the recovery going? Hope all is well!

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:00 pm

well, its been a few days since I lanced that last bubble, so far so good.

before she woulda been growing a new bubble, I called WSU and consulted a vet down there, they think it sounds like a grass seed too. Said if this last surgury didn't do the trick then they could MRI and "follow the tracks" with the MRI. Asked if the dog could still grow bubbles even if the forigen object is out and track cleaned up, they said yes sometimes it'll still get fluid in there post surgury but that it should slow up soon - that is what I am seeing now. The bubbles have slowed up a lot and hopefully she's on the mend.

WSU wanted upwards of $3000 to do the MRI work

ben33127 · Post by **ben33127** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:29 pm

kudos for being such a good owner!

Byrdgirl · Post by **Byrdgirl** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:51 pm

I've been following your thread and I have to say the poor pics of your pup just break my heart. I give you alot of props for making sure she has been treated even though it has been so expensive. Your a good dog owner.

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:12 pm

Thank you for the kind words

just to let you all know this an inside dog and she gets a bath once a week or anytime we go hunting or get dirty, I always check her over and brush her out.
I did not see any holes or bleeding or anything else to ever indicate a grass seed could have punctured her hide to begin all this.

check them dogs over good, hate for any other dog (or owner) to go thru this.

k2k · Post by **k2k** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:33 pm

I truly hope this is the beginning of the end of whatever is going on with Libby. What a nightmare for both of you!

Best of everything,

Karen

ben33127 · Post by **ben33127** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:09 pm

Any updates?

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:54 pm

deleted

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:38 pm

no big juicy bubbles since her last surgury, but she is lumpy on her sides. If you pet or rub her sides down you really feel it.

She ran into my knee today all excited to go outside, she thinks I did it :roll: and was unhappy with me for a bit lol. She yelped and an hour later he side was starting to swell up a little (it was right in the surgury spot). I dont' think its a result of the foriegn object but rather a side effect of having so much work done on her all in the same spot.

So I guess its just wait and see at this point.

Although she does seem to be excited and running around more than she had been.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:07 am

KF,

Just keep a good eye on her. Mine had the grass migrate through the lungs and into the chest cavity and was very lucky to make it in the end. I got to where I kept the thermometer and checked her temp at least every other day for about 2 months after she'd recovered. I still keep it handy to this day. Mine didn't show any signs of grass seed migration on her body either - she might have inhaled the seed and it worked it's way out. That might be true of your dog as well.

Good luck with her recovery! Hopefully she'll be out chasing birds before too long. Mine recovered (with loss of 1/2 a lung) to hunt Prairie Chickens with me (first time for both of us) in the NE Sandhills. She did great and has what I'll call a full recovery - so much so that she dislocated her hip a month ago and had to have toggle pin surgery for that. She is sure getting expensive as she ages!

Keep up the watch on your pup - hoping for a full and speedy recovery for you guys!

ben33127 · Post by **ben33127** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:02 pm

So how are things going?

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:53 pm

So far so good!

I feel a couple soft spots, but they arn't growing or filling with fluid.
I feel some hard spots where the vet scraped off a lot of tissue. Rubbing her flanks feels funny I hope it smoothes out with time.

So I'd say she's good to go, I've been training her and conditioing her with free runs.

I wouldn't drop her off at a trainer for months on end yet though as I want to keep a close eye on her flanks.
At the first sign of any bubbles starting to form I want to get her on antibiotics, hopefully if its started soon enough we won't have to drain it.

ben33127 · Post by **ben33127** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:48 pm

Great news

KFhunter · Post by **KFhunter** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:58 pm

This little dog passed away 6/19/14,

I stopped updating this thread a while ago but the medical conditions were never truly over. She's had fevers and lumps and more vet visits than I wrote about, but also there were long stretches where everything was fine, months and maybe even a year with no medical issues then bam - more lumps. She had one nasty lump on her head just in front of the ear recently that was all cleaned out and stitched back up by a vet. The ear itself wasn't infected, it was just a lump that erupted nasty goo all over her face.

There's been so many surgery's the spots she had as a pup no longer matched the spots she had as an adult. If you compared pics of her markings as a pup to adult, you'd think it was a different dog.
She's seen quite a few different vets in multiple clinics, to no avail. She's been on the table with 4-5 vets all circled around her having a pow-wow and scratching their heads as to what the cause could be. blood samples, stool samples, tissue samples etc.

She died at home in front of the door while I was asleep, no whining whimpering vomiting or any clues that anything was wrong - just plopped over dead like a light switch was turned off.

She'll be missed, she was a fantastic family pet with an excellent disposition and much loved by all. Sometimes I wonder why I do it.

RIP Libby.

Cicada · Post by **Cicada** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:28 pm

I think you did all you could to give her the best life a bird dog with health problems could ask for and more.

RIP Libby

Grant (really like that name)

marysburg · Post by **marysburg** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:55 pm

I am so sorry to hear about your dear Libby. I have thought about her many times since you first told us of her troubles, and in the intervening years I have treated one of my Britts immediately when I thought she was showing signs of having inhaled a grass awn. If it had not been for you, perhaps I would have waited to see what happened instead of treating aggressively. When I took my dog to our local vet, she said she had not diagnosed this ailment before, but that it didn't mean she hadn't seen it before. She said now she knows better what to look for. Thanks to you.
Your story of Libby was so difficult to read, and for you, it must have been so difficult to endure. We share your sorrow, and send our deepest condolences to your family.