better question

[redman25]

I just asked the question about the LCS ecollar, but I've decided against it based on 4 stim levels.

My GSP is 4.5 months. What is more important at this point? Remote launcher or e collar? I'm sure opinions will vary, but humor me please. I need to make a decision quick.

[AzDoggin]

For me it would be the launcher first, hands down. You want him good and birdie before you start putting brakes on him.

[Brittguy]

I would go for a good quality ecollar

[ezzy333]

The e-collar is the number one training tool available to us today. Love the launchers but you can do without them a lot easier than doing without the long check cord we all know as an e-collar.

Ezzy

[redman25]

The e-collar is the number one training tool available to us today. Love the launchers but you can do without them a lot easier than doing without the long check cord we all know as an e-collar.

Ezzy

Ok, let's say I get the launcher first, and the e collar within a few months. I know that both are important, but money is an issue, and with the training program I'm following bird intro, with launcher, is first and foremost. Again, the pup is only 4.5 months and stays pretty close because of that. Not trying to lead, but with that information, does that change your opinion at all?

[Maurice]

You should not need either right now. I don't think pups need to see launchers to early. Later on they are a great tool. For a ecollar I would recommend the TriTronics pro series collar, its worth the extra money imo. Try and find a local source that sells good hard flying healthy quail, that is where I would spend my money for the pup. Do just enough to get your pup hunting hard and on fire for birds, don't overdo the pen raise birds and very young pups

Mo

[birddog1968]

You should not need either right now. I don't think pups need to see launchers to early. Later on they are a great tool. For a ecollar I would recommend the TriTronics pro series collar, its worth the extra money imo. Try and find a local source that sells good hard flying healthy quail, that is where I would spend my money for the pup. Do just enough to get your pup hunting hard and on fire for birds, don't overdo the pen raise birds and very young pups

Mo

+1

You don't need either right away, Dunno what methods your using but I don't put any pressure on a dog until they are about a year +/- ......Check cord and good flying birds are a great place to start...you've got months to aquire a collar and may never need a launcher unless you decide to adopt a training program that requires them.

[redman25]

I'm going to follow the perfection kennels program which requires both. That being said, I'm gathering from you guys that just giving the pup lots of bird contact and having fun is the best thing right now, and then start with the actual program when he's a little more mature and ready? In the program, their intro to birds is very simple anyway. The launchers are used to control the point later on. They do run the dog with the e-collar on, but do not use it until later, just to get the dog used to wearing it. I can get a dummy collar really cheap.

[ezzy333]

You should not need either right now. I don't think pups need to see launchers to early. Later on they are a great tool. For a ecollar I would recommend the TriTronics pro series collar, its worth the extra money imo. Try and find a local source that sells good hard flying healthy quail, that is where I would spend my money for the pup. Do just enough to get your pup hunting hard and on fire for birds, don't overdo the pen raise birds and very young pups

Mo

Agree but when you do decide to get one or the other the collar comes first in my mind. Both are just tools to make the job easier and are not a necessity but there is little that substitutes for the collar where you can get around the launcher thing is several ways.

Ezzy

[redman25]

Thanks a lot everyone, and I'll keep it all in mind.

Ezzy, I'm assuming the other ways around the launcher are just good flying birds as Mo pointed out?

[kbshorthairs]

If money and time are an issue.......just wait. Neither of those items are going to be important for a while.
The ecollar is an invaluable tool, but it is used to reinforce commands that the dogs knows already. Lots of yard work needs to be put in before an ecollar comes into the picture.
All the gear and information can seem overwhelming at first, but don't rush into anything. Let the puppy be a puppy and get him around birds.....you will be amazed how the light comes on in his head.

[birddogger]

You should not need either right now. I don't think pups need to see launchers to early. Later on they are a great tool. For a ecollar I would recommend the TriTronics pro series collar, its worth the extra money imo. Try and find a local source that sells good hard flying healthy quail, that is where I would spend my money for the pup. Do just enough to get your pup hunting hard and on fire for birds, don't overdo the pen raise birds and very young pups

Mo

+1

You don't need either right away, Dunno what methods your using but I don't put any pressure on a dog until they are about a year +/- ......Check cord and good flying birds are a great place to start...you've got months to aquire a collar and may never need a launcher unless you decide to adopt a training program that requires them.

+2 It is too early for either one, IMO.

Charlie

[Dereck Layne]

When you get ready to buy either e-collar or launcher, don't skimp on the price on neither item. You will regret it in the long run. You might as well not have it, if your equipment don't perform. IMO tri-tronics on the e-collar and dog-tra on the launcher.

[redman25]

When you get ready to buy either e-collar or launcher, don't skimp on the price on neither item. You will regret it in the long run. You might as well not have it, if your equipment don't perform. IMO tri-tronics on the e-collar and dog-tra on the launcher.

I know it. I've been leaning toward the Dogtra 2500 Trainer/Beeper and the Dogtra launchers. I've heard good things about tritronics and dogtra collars. I just like the Dogtra the best because of the beeper, just for locating purposes. Money's just a little tight right now and it's about 700 for both. I'll wait til I can swing it.

[Don]

Another for don't need either. Does happy timeing ring a bell?

[Sprig]

in order of importance i would rank it this way in terms of what you will need for your dog and in what order you should worry about getting them.......#1 homing pigeons, #2 remote bird launcher, #3 check chord, #4 e-collar.

I just posted this video on another thread but i will re-post the link to it as it shows you what a 5 month old dog can do with only a bird launcher and 2 weeks of training. this dog hasnt even worn an e-collar yet and wont for a while but i am a huge advocate of getting them on birds early to bring out the point early. i would most definitely go for the bird launcher before the e-collar. watch the video as this dog has only been on birds for 2 weeks and today her point has started to show as she threw a great point at the end of the video. http://sprigkennelsandsupply.com/tess-videos/ you cant have a bird dog if you dont put them on A LOT of birds. pigeons + bird launchers * many training sessions = one great pointing dog.

[RayGubernat]

As far as tools are concerned, an e-collar will be the most valuable of the expensive tools because you will use it thoughout the dog's life. The launchers are only used for a very short period of time. as mentioned previously, there are many ways around the launchers, including a baby sock over the pigeon's head attached to a string. An old collander or strainer with a rock on top makes a great manual pigeon or quail trap. Add a string to the handle and you can release the bird from as far away as the string is long.

However, as far as training a youngster, there is very little you can do with an e-collar that you cannot do with just a 20-30 ft. checkcord or if you choose a checkcord with either a pinch or prong collar. I use a prong collar because I am a cheapo.

As far as obedience training for a youngster, I get a lot of use out of a pigging string, which is basically a poor man's version of the Smith "wonder lead". However, a checkcord with the cord looped back though the snap will work just fine too.

It ain't about the price of the training tools, it is about having a clear training plan.

The plan needs to include what you wish to accomplish during every single training session and needs to consider what could possibly go wrong. If you have a plan with clear goals you will know when you have achieved your goal for the session. If you think abut what can go wrong, you will have a good idea how to react when it does go wrong. Timing is everything in a dog training scenrio, so knowing what to expect and what to do, in advance, will help you to have good timing.

Executing that plan with patience, persistence, firmness with gentleness and above all with a healthy sense of humor, for when things just don't go the way you want, will get you both where you need to be.

As far as which e-collar... I have used a Tritronics Flyway Special for more years than I want to admit and it is all the e-collar I will ever need, as I use mostly low intensity nicks as cues to the dog. I have a separate beeper collar.

RayG

[redman25]

Well I went ahead and bought the dogtra 2500 T&B. Couldn't help myself, I found it brand new for 75 under retail. I'm going to listen to everyone and hold off on training with it, just run him with it on to get him used to wearing it, and I'm taking him to WV in about a month to let him experience some grouse so the beeper might come in handy for locating. Thanks for all the advice. I need every bit of it.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Redman,
At this age your pup needs neither tool, let the pup mature and due some play training before you decide to use either tool.
RGD/Dave