Dog Fights

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:59 pm

My buddy and I both have young male GSP's, both are around 18 months old, and whenever there isn't an older male dog around all they do is fight. Whether we are in the field hunting or at a field trial etc. It doesn't matter, they always get into it. Any advice on how to get these 2 to get along so we can all hunt peacefully? Is it a dominance thing? Should we just let them handle it themselves?

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:37 pm

Every time they fight, throw them on their back and bring in a subordinate dog to rule. Also, get them neutered. Very few neutered males fight, and there are more great breeders than you can shake a stick at. Not trying to be a prick, but when dogs fight like that it usually means that their alpha, you, hasn't been dominant enough. Show them who is boss! I have never owned a dog that would dare piss me off.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:46 pm

I would agree with getting the balls removed.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:57 pm

That is kind of odd for it to happen repeatedly and it sounds like on neutral territory. Is one the obvious instigator?

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:00 pm

I don't know where the idea of neutering will cure fighting or aggresiveness,no more then it will cure a dog of hiking his leg or marking.

String them up untill they think they are going to die.

dudleysmith · Post by **dudleysmith** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:15 pm

You dont have full control of them, until you do this will continue....

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:19 pm

Yes, it is on neutral territory. My dog has a pretty timid demeanor, neither is a naturally aggressive dog. They've both instigated the fights and neither fights with any other dog. And when an older male is around, they act fine. I'm confused by it all. Neither dog will be getting neutered.

dudleysmith · Post by **dudleysmith** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:28 pm

ElectricShorthairs wrote:Yes, it is on neutral territory. My dog has a pretty timid demeanor, neither is a naturally aggressive dog. They've both instigated the fights and neither fights with any other dog. And when an older male is around, they act fine. I'm confused by it all. Neither dog will be getting neutered.

Are they littermates?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:29 pm

Are they fighting or playing. The latter can get really rough and dogs can be hurt. I have two 14 month old brothers and a 7 month old that's bigger than them that will take the walls down, but once the hit the field, they go their own way and cut the physical contact. Do they know any commands? Here? Whoa? Turn? Go to the front? If you get them on a command chain, then you can correct them - not for fighting, but for not following a command. Sounds like massive immaturity and lack of training.

I'm also in the neutering doesn't make a bit of difference camp. Two of the worst dog fighters I've ever had were neutered as young adults. I'm not much on dominance rolls or drawn out punishment, either. A nice leather traffic lead works just fine if I get close enough to an infraction in progress.

Also, most dogs improve disposition-wise with adequate exercise.

Post by **topher40** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm

Neither one will be nuetered? Is that because your planning on breeding them down the line? Why would you breed a fighter? Guess that would be one more litter out of two dogs breeding with no regard to genetics, temperament, biddability, conformation, etc. Good luck...... :roll:

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:43 pm

I'm going to ask all of you to clean up the language and keep it permissiable for kids or who ever to read. If you are having difficulty finding a word to use go to the dictionary. I believe everyone will appreciate your effort. There is a reason you can't post many of the words without trying something creative and we just aren't going to allow it to pass.

Ezzy

dudleysmith · Post by **dudleysmith** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:48 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I'm going to ask all of you to clean up the language and keep it permissiable for kids or who ever to read. If you are having difficulty finding a word to use go to the dictionary. I believe everyone will appreciate your effort. There is a reason you can't post many of the words without trying something creative and we just aren't going to allow it to pass.

Ezzy

U aren't around very many kids are you?..most cuss like sailors..

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:53 pm

dudleysmith wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:I'm going to ask all of you to clean up the language and keep it permissiable for kids or who ever to read. If you are having difficulty finding a word to use go to the dictionary. I believe everyone will appreciate your effort. There is a reason you can't post many of the words without trying something creative and we just aren't going to allow it to pass.

Ezzy

U aren't around very many kids are you?..most cuss like sailors..

Thats why they don't post on here.

Ezzy

dudleysmith · Post by **dudleysmith** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:54 pm

There are some dogs for whatever reason just do not get along, they get along with everything else fine but when it comes to that one dog they go crazy..

If you have a dog that wants to fight every dog well that dog needs to be gotten rid of...not be bred cause it will pass on down...

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:00 pm

The only time either of these dogs fight, is with each other. Both are out of great bloodline, good hunters etc. They're great dogs but for whatever reason they don't seem to agree with each other. They've never shown any aggression towards another creature other than each other. I don't know whether either of these dogs will be used to breed, but I didn't know that if a dog gets in a fight, it shouldn't be used for breeding. I'd rather just get it resolved.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:03 pm

It really sounds to me like two young dogs who haven't decided the pecking order than they are still trying to show who's boss. Probably you do need to take the place of the old dog and show them who is boss and see if they can live with your decision.

Ezzy

dudleysmith · Post by **dudleysmith** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:06 pm

ElectricShorthairs wrote:The only time either of these dogs fight, is with each other. Both are out of great bloodline, good hunters etc. They're great dogs but for whatever reason they don't seem to agree with each other. They've never shown any aggression towards another creature other than each other. I don't know whether either of these dogs will be used to breed, but I didn't know that if a dog gets in a fight, it shouldn't be used for breeding. I'd rather just get it resolved.

Its just something between them, chances are they will always have something for each other... Aggression is a trait that passes on... this is not true aggression in my opinion, true aggression they want to fight about everything

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:11 pm

ElectricShorthairs wrote:The only time either of these dogs fight, is with each other. Both are out of great bloodline, good hunters etc. They're great dogs but for whatever reason they don't seem to agree with each other. They've never shown any aggression towards another creature other than each other. I don't know whether either of these dogs will be used to breed, but I didn't know that if a dog gets in a fight, it shouldn't be used for breeding. I'd rather just get it resolved.

If fighting precluded breeding, then a LOT of GSP pedigrees would look a lot different!

Now, when you say they fight, do they go through the whole sparring and stiff legged, hackles up, circle and growl routine, or do they simply zero in on each other and body slam and clinch, continuing until it gets out of hand? I've dealt with a couple of pairs of dogs that couldn't stand to breathe the same air, a couple of indiscriminate fighters and several brother issues. Unless there is the definitive threatening and posturing, then obedience should take care of it.

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:33 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
ElectricShorthairs wrote:The only time either of these dogs fight, is with each other. Both are out of great bloodline, good hunters etc. They're great dogs but for whatever reason they don't seem to agree with each other. They've never shown any aggression towards another creature other than each other. I don't know whether either of these dogs will be used to breed, but I didn't know that if a dog gets in a fight, it shouldn't be used for breeding. I'd rather just get it resolved.

If fighting precluded breeding, then a LOT of GSP pedigrees would look a lot different!

Now, when you say they fight, do they go through the whole sparring and stiff legged, hackles up, circle and growl routine, or do they simply zero in on each other and body slam and clinch, continuing until it gets out of hand? I've dealt with a couple of pairs of dogs that couldn't stand to breathe the same air, a couple of indiscriminate fighters and several brother issues. Unless there is the definitive threatening and posturing, then obedience should take care of it.

It's actually a little of both. Like I said, when older males are around they are fine with each other. I think they are trying to establish the pecking order. Should we just let them settle it themselves, or should we establish our dominance? Or let my female GSP show them BOTH who is the real boss

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:16 am

Howie and Ted gave you the info you needed, make the punishment SEVERE! You need to deal with the issue as soon as the dogs look at each other for too long or too intently, normally(but not always) dogs will give early warning before a fight ensues. The signs normally start fairly subtle, this is then the correction should happen if you wait for overt signs of aggression you have waited to long! I strongly agree with Ted cutting their air off will usually get excellent results.

APATZ_GSP · Post by **APATZ_GSP** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:17 pm

Acooper what do you mean by cutting thier air?

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:26 pm

You have them on a CC or leash & string them up cuts off their air till they think there dying.I know might sound cruel but would you rather have them tear each others throat out or ear off believe me it will get their attention.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:05 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:You have them on a CC or leash & string them up cuts off their air till they think there dying.I know might sound cruel but would you rather have them tear each others throat out or ear off believe me it will get their attention.

If one of mine even growled at another dog it would be in the air. Stop it before it gets out of hand.

Coveyrise64

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:49 pm

I suggest you don't take them to AKC events anymore (field trials, hunt tests, shows, whatever) until you get the fighting stopped. The dog starting it will get wrote up for fighting at their events. The second time they are wrote up AKC bans them from being in AKC events. Good luck getting the problem fixed.

DougB · Post by **DougB** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:55 am

Beating a dog should not be part of training a dog. First, it is illegal. If a neighbor sees this and calls the authorities, you have some real problems coming up. Second, the dog learns to fear you. A cowering dog just doesn't make a good impression when retrieving to hand. You feed the dog, you trained the dog, the dog already knows you are the boss.
If the dogs don't like each other, keep them separated. Rotate hunting them. They may just grow out of this as they get more into hunting and less into themselves. If necessary, find a trainer who works with aggressive dogs. There are people out there who specialize in troubled dogs. You may be able to find one by contacting a rescue or an obedience class instructor. A round of obedience training classes usually includes teaching the dogs to be polite in mixed company. That usually includes teaching them to either ignore other dogs or teaching them to play nice.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:05 am

You feed the dog, you trained the dog, the dog already knows you are the boss.

Think about this. If you have a servant doing everything for you, do you know you they are the boss or just doing what you want them to?

Ezzy

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:50 am

Does this mean GSPs aren't too smart and like to pick fights?

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:04 pm

DougB did I say anything about beating a dog anywhere?? If your neighbor sees dogs fighting & you standing there staring at them doing nothing you could also be charged with dog fighting.
That's one of the problems we have neighbors sticking their nose where it don't belong when they know nothing about what's going on but those same neighbors close their eyes if they see some one stealing or breaking in.There are people on the street shot every night & the neighbors never see anything.

A couple yrs ago I tied a dog on a stake out across the rd while I went to get some pigeons,my launchers,etc.When I start to go back I have the cable man setting in my sister's drive calling the Humane Society,he wanted to know what I was teaching my dog by staking him out.I tried to be polite & explain it but I really wanted to tell him where to go.Some people just rub me the wrong way.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:18 pm

http://positively.com/

Perhaps you should have her visit?

DougB · Post by **DougB** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:44 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
You feed the dog, you trained the dog, the dog already knows you are the boss.
Think about this. If you have a servant doing everything for you, do you know you they are the boss or just doing what you want them to?

Ezzy

I thought about it. If your servant screws up, and you beat him, are you going to trust him again? We're working with dogs, not cats. From day 1, we control the dog. They see us as the source of all good things. They learn that if they do what we want, they get food and praise. We replace the parent as the authority figure. Dogs have been bred for centuries, with subservience being considered a desirable trait. We teach them to come, go, stay, sit, lie down, fetch, piddle and dump outside, eat when told, and to stop everything when they hear "no". Some will of course push us as far as they can, but that's because while they might want to be boss, they know we are. There are a very few who will never accept us as boss, but they tend to get culled or shot or left in the woods. Of course, there are some who learn from the beginning that we can hurt and injure them, that we are not the source of all good things. I don't believe fear develops confident and aggressive hunting dogs as well as reward based training.

If the dog doesn't accept you as boss by the time it's old enough to hunt, you haven't raised it right. There are ways to retrain the dog without pain. One method would be Nothing In Life Is Free. The dogs only food comes from the owners hand, and only after obeying a command. The dog learns that obedience to you brings a reward. Disobedience brings hunger. No pain.

There are books written about training by experts. I am no expert, and while I like to talk a lot, I don't want to write a book. These two dogs are apparently trained in everything except getting along with each other. Beat them when they fight and the message could very well be that when the other dog shows up, the dog gets hurt. Dogs tend to bite the source of pain. Either avoid the situation (not setting the dog up to fail), or train them out of it.

DougB · Post by **DougB** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:58 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:DougB did I say anything about beating a dog anywhere?? If your neighbor sees dogs fighting & you standing there staring at them doing nothing you could also be charged with dog fighting.
That's one of the problems we have neighbors sticking their nose where it don't belong when they know nothing about what's going on but those same neighbors close their eyes if they see some one stealing or breaking in.There are people on the street shot every night & the neighbors never see anything.

A couple yrs ago I tied a dog on a stake out across the rd while I went to get some pigeons,my launchers,etc.When I start to go back I have the cable man setting in my sister's drive calling the Humane Society,he wanted to know what I was teaching my dog by staking him out.I tried to be polite & explain it but I really wanted to tell him where to go.Some people just rub me the wrong way.

"Punish severely", "cut off air". You may have noticed that our lives are becoming more and more POLITICALLY CORRECTED. If you are outside, you are being watched. Many people don't care if you get robbed or shot, as long as your cute little doggie doesn't get hurt. I lived in a town where if you didn't have a kennel, the dog had to be on a 6 ft or shorter chain. Now, that is considered abusive. My argument against "punish severely" and "cut off air" is that pain is used, when there are other ways to handle the problem that may be more effective. If you don't want to go to the trouble of retraining, just avoid the problem by using a crate. There is a difference between separating the dogs and cutting off their air.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:02 pm

mcbosco wrote:http://positively.com/

Perhaps you should have her visit?

Good looking bitch! Victoria is attractive also.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:22 pm

Ok DB so if you see a dog attacking a child you are going to baby that dog untill he is done then retrain him huh?I have said enough but you are welcome to come see if my dogs have been abused.
Better yet ask some one that has bought a dog from me or picked one up after being shipped by plane if they act like they have been abused.
I have heard more then once of a dog or pup coming off a plane scared to death never heard that from a client yet.
Carry on I'm ending my response now.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:19 pm

We went the route of no pain with our kids due to Dr. Spock and you can see where that got us too. Sorry, but your do nothing approach is exactly why many problems exist till something serious happens. Anyone or any dog needs to understand there are results to their actions that many times results in them suffering pain. It's a great teacher. That doesn't mean you are being abusive but just addressing a problem in a method we all seem to understand.

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:35 pm

All kidding aside, two sporting dogs that fight is not a particularly difficult problem. I am sure the OP will sort this out once the dogs see him and his friend as being in charge. I would watch Dog Whisperer because every other case is about this same thing but with dogs that can be dangerous.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:02 pm

DougB wrote:"Punish severely", "cut off air". You may have noticed that our lives are becoming more and more POLITICALLY CORRECTED. If you are outside, you are being watched. Many people don't care if you get robbed or shot, as long as your cute little doggie doesn't get hurt. I lived in a town where if you didn't have a kennel, the dog had to be on a 6 ft or shorter chain. Now, that is considered abusive. My argument against "punish severely" and "cut off air" is that pain is used, when there are other ways to handle the problem that may be more effective. If you don't want to go to the trouble of retraining, just avoid the problem by using a crate. There is a difference between separating the dogs and cutting off their air.

I am going to make a fairly safe assumption that you have not been around many dogs that really wanted to fight. You seem very worried about being "PC" I dont care about being PC I am about solving a problem. The methods mentioned above are the fastest and surest way that I know of to fix a problem that has already begun.

Training using nothing but positive reinforcement is an unrealistic IMHO.

Doub B do you agree with Ceaser Milan as a dog Trainer?

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:11 pm

I agree with DougB. Two sissy pants bird dogs wanting to go at it is easy to fix.

They need to be around each other more, separated of course, and the handlers need to be clear and firm with them, not abusive or violent.

I didn't mean sissy pants in a negative way. They are supposed to be gentle & social.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:27 pm

big steve46 wrote:Does this mean GSPs aren't too smart and like to pick fights?

Yeah. Kind of like setter owners, they are.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:36 pm

You know we have already had one account of a dog literally tearing a kennel mate up this year and now we have people pushing for a repeat performance because it is just too harsh to handle the problem before it gets serious.

Sure is easy to sit back with advice compared to having to dig the hole to put one of your dogs in. Think I will stick with solving the problem now before it goes any farther and serious damage done to a good dog.

Ezzy

dudleysmith · Post by **dudleysmith** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:58 pm

Dogs will kill each other if left alone its the wild animal in them coming out...any fighting needs to stopped immediately

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:47 pm

I say get them both fixed in case you get an offer to breed them later.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:05 pm

ultracarry wrote:I say get them both fixed in case you get an offer to breed them later.

Hope you don't have two sons.

Ezzy

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:26 pm

Don't want them either

DougB · Post by **DougB** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:40 pm

ezzy333 wrote:You know we have already had one account of a dog literally tearing a kennel mate up this year and now we have people pushing for a repeat performance because it is just too harsh to handle the problem before it gets serious.

Sure is easy to sit back with advice compared to having to dig the hole to put one of your dogs in. Think I will stick with solving the problem now before it goes any farther and serious damage done to a good dog.

Ezzy

We seem to have some mission creep here. The original post is about two young dogs, not kennel mates, that don't get along with each other, unless an older dog is present. Poster says dogs get along with all other dogs, just not each other. Now we have kennel mates killing each other and kids getting chewed up? I didn't say to let it go. I didn't say don't separate the dogs. I suggested not hunting them together and using more or different training. I am really surprised that experience dog trainers would advocate or defend severe punishment or hanging as training methods to use on valuable hunting dogs, especially to eliminate a problem that can be easily avoided. I know I am not going to change any minds here, but remember that many jurisdictions call beating or hanging a dog abuse, some call it felony animal abuse.

Just because these dogs fight each other doesn't appear to mean they will fight other dogs. It doesn't mean they will bite people. I am surprised they will fight while hunting. Possibly more solo hunting to build drive for birds would also solve this problem. But none of it is my problem, and I believe the original poster and his hunting buddy will work it out

You do what you want. I don't want my dog shying from my hand. If I caught anyone beating, kicking, or hanging my dog, their problem would no longer be the dog.

ACooper wrote:Doub B do you agree with Ceaser Milan as a dog Trainer?

My dog doesn't fight and isn't a problem. My cable doesn't carry his show. Don't know if I agree with him or not. I don't believe he advocates using pain to train a dog

.

gpblitz wrote:Left in the woods

I agree with you on this. But it happens.

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Ok DB so if you see a dog attacking a child you are going to baby that dog untill he is done then retrain him

Never said anything to even imply I would let a dog hurt a child. This post was about two dogs. Why does my position make you so angry. I don't know you and haven't accused you of anything.

Ridge-Point · Post by **Ridge-Point** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:32 pm

DougB wrote: The original post is about two young dogs, not kennel mates, that don't get along with each other, unless an older dog is present. Now we have kennel mates killing each other and kids getting chewed up? Just because these dogs fight each other doesn't appear to mean they will fight other dogs. It doesn't mean they will bite people.

You must be effective when trying to correct a problem like this. Any correction you give, positive or negative, will have to be effective or the problem will escalate. Once a dog learns that it's ok to fight then yes, he may attack another dog. He may think it's ok to fight any dog he has a problem with.

In any dog fight situation people can get bit. Those dogs are looking for anything to latch on to, and they don't care if it's your hand or someone elses. They will bite you and you will be going to the ER for stitches. There are methods for breaking a dog fight apart, but in my opinion, no method is without some risk of being bitten.

When a dog is in fight mode he is so pumped up with adrenalin that his pain tolerance is through the roof. Taking a dogs air away is about the only 100% effective way of gettin him to stop and think.

DougB wrote: I am surprised they will fight while hunting. Possibly more solo hunting to build drive for birds would also solve this problem.

In my experiance bird drive can actually make it worse. You add a dominance issue to a hunting situation and watch out!

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:41 pm

I am really surprised that experience dog trainers would advocate or defend severe punishment or hanging as training methods to use on valuable hunting dogs, especially to eliminate a problem that can be easily avoided. I guess you've never been around pro trainer much then. Have you? You have alot to learn and alot of pros. Not all of them but more than you'll ever find out. I've watched it and it scares me to think they're susposed to be training dogs. But sometimes you have to get a point across.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:21 pm

I think most of the disagreement comes from what your concept of severe or even mistreatment is. WHen you have a problem that might turn severe(death or disfigurement) of another animal I do not think punishment that makes a dog think it might be injured as severe or mistreatment. Guess its a lot like warterboarding . Many thought it was just terrible to make someone think they might die to save the lives of hundreds of people or the treatment those same people dish out such as real torture and or death by beheading or limbs cut off one at a time. There is a difference and if you need to do something that makes the dog think it might be hurt and it makes the dog realize the actual attept to injure or kill won't be tolerated then it is a great tradeoff and a humane way of teaching to prevent a dog being killed or you having to kill your own dog after the fact.

Believe me it is not fun to have to kill your own dog after it has taken some other animals life or attempted to.

Ezzy

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:26 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I think most of the disagreement comes from what your concept of severe or even mistreatment is. WHen you have a problem that might turn severe(death or disfigurement) of another animal I do not think punishment that makes a dog think it might be injured as severe or mistreatment. Guess its a lot like warterboarding . Many thought it was just terrible to make someone think they might die to save the lives of hundreds of people or the treatment those same people dish out such as real torture and or death by beheading or limbs cut off one at a time. There is a difference and if you need to do something that makes the dog think it might be hurt and it makes the dog realize the actual attept to injure or kill won't be tolerated then it is a great tradeoff and a humane way of teaching to prevent a dog being killed or you having to kill your own dog after the fact.

Believe me it is not fun to have to kill your own dog after it has taken some other animals life or attempted to.

Ezzy

+1

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:56 pm

I intentionally stepped around this post several times until I seen it had gone on long enough, & unfortunately, I gave in.

It is blatently evident that there are a couple of people on here who HAVE NO CLUE WHATSOEVER on what to do with an aggressive birddog. Also there seems to be some SERIOUS denial issues as well. You need to get real, before someone or something gets hurt, badly.

It boils my blood and sickens my gut to hear someone post about a serious behavioral problem with dogs, and then minimize it because its something they don't want to hear. Even more so to hear someone call the proper behavior modification techniques "animal abuse/inhumane/etc"

If you don't like what I have to say, that's fine, but I HAVE BEEN THERE, Dealt with it, and consequently paid the ultimate price for it.

Ignorance is NOT bliss.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:13 pm

Some of you might call stringing up a dog abusive but I seriously doubt anyone would be arressted for using it to stop a seroius dog fight.If you have ever tried to get between to dogs to stop a fight or seen the results of some one else doing it you might understand what REAL ABUSE IS!!

I've been thinking about this & realise that I & some of the others that reccomend this tactic are probably from another Generation then the ones that see it as cruel.
I'm from the Generation that did things differently & got results not "BACKTALK"