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Ah grasshopper, you are ready to burn your arms and leaveEVERYTHING YOU DO WITH YOUR DOG IS A LESSON
snips wrote:I question taking a pups independence at early age over obedience....I do not do it, as I want a dog that will blow me off at times....I mold them as they grow and mature, but they are left to be pretty much wild children....I want them to come at 6-7 mo....Thats about it
Bingo.. Possibly some breeds you can get away with it some not. Regardless, I am not into taking chances. As soon as I see the independence/run and drive then it's time to do some yardwork.I question taking a pups independence at early age over obedience....I do not do it, as I want a dog that will blow me off at times....I mold them as they grow and mature, but they are left to be pretty much wild children....I want them to come at 6-7 mo....Thats about it
I must be dense or something, I see no correlation to teaching a pup simple thjings like come and playing fetch games. I do expose pups to birds at a early age like as soon as eyes open. Whoa is like tossing a treat on the floor and making pup wait to get it, stuff like that. I dont take them out and hunt over them at 5 months.I question taking a pups independence at early age over obedience
Hi bossman, passionate i ambossman wrote:I really don't want my dog's to have a "job". I hope I can build on their natural ability and increase their "passion". To make my post as short as possoble, I agree with snips, topher40, gittrdonebrits and chuckar12. In my opinion it's a lot easier to take a little independance out of a dog than try to instill independace in the dog. For the first few months, we let our pups be pups. Will introduce them to the lead and start teaching them "here". The fields we walk in will introduce them to field birds, butterflys,etc. Will be a long time before I teach "heel" and I never teach "sit". Ruth, just curious, what training method are you using? Which books/video's? It's obvious your very excited about Jersey. Always thrilled to see people passionate about their gun dogs.
jcbuttry8 wrote:everybody has their own method of madnuss. I have always started a pup as soon as it was at home. it is like a child. you don't wait until your child is older. They are learning as soon as they hit your house. They will pick up more with other dogs in the house.
for instance, Kona has been here three weeks. She retrieves anything you throw, she comes to the command or the wistle, she understands no and she is 11 weeks old. Everything she has learned has been through play time. She has never been repremanded. I swore no sit training until she was older. Now the other two dogs sit for treats at the end of the day, and my daughter gives the treats. I gave orders to not teach kona sit, just give the treat.
Now if I tell the other two dogs to sit, kona parks her backend on the floor and waits for the treat. They learn. Teach your dog and your dog will respond. Show them love, and they will want to do it just to please you.
Wait to long and you loos your dog. They will learn either way. They will learn the right way or they will learn to do what they want when they want and that is another bad habit to break. I have a friend that has a lab that he waited till 6 mos to train. he is having heck getting him to come on comand. He hates that Kona comes right to the whistle, but that is how it works. The results don't lie no matter what the books say.
My two cents,
Eighty-8
jcbuttry8 wrote:everybody has their own method of madnuss. I have always started a pup as soon as it was at home. it is like a child. you don't wait until your child is older. They are learning as soon as they hit your house. They will pick up more with other dogs in the house.
for instance, Kona has been here three weeks. She retrieves anything you throw, she comes to the command or the wistle, she understands no and she is 11 weeks old. Everything she has learned has been through play time. She has never been repremanded. I swore no sit training until she was older. Now the other two dogs sit for treats at the end of the day, and my daughter gives the treats. I gave orders to not teach kona sit, just give the treat.
Now if I tell the other two dogs to sit, kona parks her backend on the floor and waits for the treat. They learn. Teach your dog and your dog will respond. Show them love, and they will want to do it just to please you.
Wait to long and you loos your dog. They will learn either way. They will learn the right way or they will learn to do what they want when they want and that is another bad habit to break. I have a friend that has a lab that he waited till 6 mos to train. he is having heck getting him to come on comand. He hates that Kona comes right to the whistle, but that is how it works. The results don't lie no matter what the books say.
My two cents,
Eighty-8
what i meant in the OP was like i said, COME, HERE, WHOA, KENNEL, NO, HEEL, basically training with a "purpose" to teach BUT with little to no pressure..even small lessons like a walk at the park around people on a cc or leash with the lesson maybe only being 10 minutes but with purpose, if you never put your pup on a leash to walk and wait for 6 months you will have alot harder of a time putting it on a leash at 6months and heading out for a walk because it will pull and bite the lead due to lack of training and at 6 months its harder to control and correct a pup then it is at say 10 weeks..training can be done in a fun way for pup but in any event still needs to be done imo..just like with swimming, do you throw a dummy in the water and let pup go after it and encourage them to retrieve it to you or just wait until its 6 or 8 months? the reason i asked is because like my neighbour theres alot of people that admit to waiting until 6 to 8 months to do ANYTHING, even the littlest of lessons..i have spoken with people on preserves and plantations that dont start anything with the pups until 6 months old maybe because they are mainly kennel dogs? which they dont learn the little things some of our dogs learn in the house while interacting with us..maybe it varies with people depending on the amount of dogs they have and depending on the purpose they have the dogs for..i think those of us with a few dogs begin earlier then those with say 10 or 20? i get what youre saying about sending kids to school when they are older BUT i will also tell you its a fact that you can teach a child to read at 2 and 3 years old (mine did) or wait and they will learn in school when they are 6..yes they will all learn to read but if you start early they will be ahead of the other kids at school their ageezzy333 wrote:I think the first thing someone better do is explain just what training is before we decide when to start. I have never seen a pup that wasn't being trained from the day it came home. Everyone is! What I think most of us are refering to when we say training is the yard and field training we do for a hunting dog. And that is what should wait. You can play and develop your pup from day one but positive training that involves pressure should no be started till the pup is old enough to understand and be able to take the pressure. Even though we do start training a child from day one we don't send them to school till they are older.
Just what is training then we can go from there.
Ezzy
No doubt about it, you certainly can. But I would rather my kids were out learning how to play, how much it hurts when someone hits them, how to get dirty, how much it hurts when you fall off the swing, that bees sting, flies bite, strawberries grow in the garden and are good when they are red, dogs are nothing to be afraid of, the 4-wheeler starts by turning the key, snakes are strange animals, and people are pretty nice and aren't to be scared of. Then at 6 they will have time to read, write, math, geography, history, and if they don't behave in school they might get their butts swatted and they sure will when they get home. If we just take care of the basics at home before we send them to school and expect the teacher to teach them everything we should have, then there would be time to teach the basic book learning instead of the junk we have to teach them now including feeding them.Ruth wrote:BUT i will also tell you its a fact that you can teach a child to read at 2 and 3 years old (mine did) or wait and they will learn in school when they are 6..yes they will all learn to read but if you start early they will be ahead of the other kids at school their age
i definitely agree with all the above but i also think that you can teach them about life (all the examples you gave) AND teach them to read a few minutes each night or get out the work books and teach them some math too..we are basically on the same page, i just feel pups can learn life AND lessons early and all at the same time with balance of course..ive seen it first hand with the difference in my own dogs and dogs of friends who plan to hunt or even some rescue dogs..you can tell what dogs have been "taught" and which ones have been left to "be a puppy"..the 6 and 7 month old pups ive seen lately need some "obedience" and if their owners taught earlier then they would keep them instead of get rid of them..granted yourself and many others are far more experienced with raising dogs and pups than i but this is what i have personally observed...ruthezzy333 wrote:No doubt about it, you certainly can. But I would rather my kids were out learning how to play, how much it hurts when someone hits them, how to get dirty, how much it hurts when you fall off the swing, that bees sting, flies bite, strawberries grow in the garden and are good when they are red, dogs are nothing to be afraid of, the 4-wheeler starts by turning the key, snakes are strange animals, and people are pretty nice and aren't to be scared of. Then at 6 they will have time to read, write, math, geography, history, and if they don't behave in school they might get their butts swatted and they sure will when they get home. If we just take care of the basics at home before we send them to school and expect the teacher to teach them everything we should have, then there would be time to teach the basic book learning instead of the junk we have to teach them now including feeding them.Ruth wrote:BUT i will also tell you its a fact that you can teach a child to read at 2 and 3 years old (mine did) or wait and they will learn in school when they are 6..yes they will all learn to read but if you start early they will be ahead of the other kids at school their age
There is a time for everything and there is so much more to be learned out of school than in. But I don't call that training, I call it letting them grow up. And the training can start when they learn a little about life.
thanks for the link ONK, good stuffOnk wrote:http://www.pineyrunkennel.com/starting_pups_Mo.htm
Here Ruth, I thought this article/interview with Maurice "Mo" Lindley went along with your post and you might enjoy reading it!
I posted sometime ago that the first thing that we need is to describe training. What you are doing Ruth, is what I would call raising a pup. Training is started when the pup is old enough to be a bird dog puppy and is designed to enhance the hunting instinct and not just the ordinary things that any pup needs to fit into your household. I can not believe your friend was told to ignore the pup till it was 6 months but rather it was a misunderstanding of what training is. But even then the pup was not ruined but would have taken a month or two of a more intense training to catchup with the norm.GUNDOGS wrote:i notice that what some of you are saying when you say you dont "train" a young pup under say 6 months you are still speaking of exposing your dog to the leash, birds, teaching come ect, run some fields, and thats alot different then what i am saying about NO training until 6 months old..i havent seen 1 post as an example of what i mean by NO training until 6 to 8 months..like snips said she wouldnt let her pups live in a box..now the lack of training i am referring to are the people that dont expose their pups to anything until 6 to 8 months old..my idea of letting a pup be a pup is explore and experience things without pressure or correction BUT with purpose..example, i first exposed jersey to water with the hose (almost 4 months old but would have been sooner had it not been snowing) she crept up to it and licked it then started sticking her face in it and running threw it, next i took her to the creek where we walk and i walked threw it and walked along it while she stood and cried wanting to get to me but i didnt acknowledge her and kept walking as though i couldnt hear her and bam she came running threw and waggin her stub with such accomplishment on what she had done, then i took her to the beach and had her on a check cord and walked out into the water throwing her dummy deeper and deeper until she was swimming and after that moment she was hooked on swimming and crazy about water, now she will swim out 40 yards for a dead bird or bumper and i can see her breaking threw ice to get a duck this fall, the purpose of the hose was 1) to end up training a dog that will love the water and hunt waterfowl with me 2) be able to compete in water tests and 3) create a balanced puppy by having no fear of water..my point is bringing out the hose for the first time was with "PURPOSE" and everything i do with her is for a purpose when im training, even if its without pressure and is fun..my example of not "training" would be the person who would wait until 6 months or older for ANY water exposure and throw the pup in water expecting it to swim and expect it to like the water because by that age it should be able to handle learning to swim..i dont know if im explaining whats in my head correctly but i do know that i havent heard 1 person say they wait until 6 months or older to what i consider "train" as i said we all may do it differently but still in any event are doing things immediately with our pups to get them ready to handle pressure and doing things with a "purpose"..feel free to argue with me if you think im wrong or way off base....ruth