markj wrote:Why is everyone so dead set on being MR. right all the time here?you used Italian Greyhounds
Welcome to GDforum lol
markj wrote:Why is everyone so dead set on being MR. right all the time here?you used Italian Greyhounds
In the Lolo the elk have gone from a herd of 16,000 down to 2,000. Hard to blame anything BUT the wolf for that one. Now, Defender's of Wildlife is trying to stop them from shooting them from planes there. Idiots.POk3s wrote:
You hunt them to protect the deer and elk herds.
x 100Meller wrote:I find it amazing that we can restock the Wolf with years of reserch and $dollars and can't figure out a way to reintroduce or repopulate Quail.
The wolf has no loss of habitat; they roam millions of acres. Quail and pheasant need cover. Stop farmers from plowing under game bird habitat and the birds will come back. With birds, waterfowl or upland, it's all about habitat.Meller wrote:I find it amazing that we can restock the Wolf with years of reserch and $dollars and can't figure out a way to reintroduce or repopulate Quail.
gonehuntin' wrote:The wolf has no loss of habitat; they roam millions of acres. Quail and pheasant need cover. Stop farmers from plowing under game bird habitat and the birds will come back. With birds, waterfowl or upland, it's all about habitat.Meller wrote:I find it amazing that we can restock the Wolf with years of reserch and $dollars and can't figure out a way to reintroduce or repopulate Quail.
Welcome to life in the food chain.Meller wrote:I find it amazing that we can restock the Wolf with years of reserch and $dollars and can't figure out a way to reintroduce or repopulate Quail.
It has nothing to do with the food change but rather some real problems which may never be remedied.Cajun Casey wrote:Welcome to life in the food chain.Meller wrote:I find it amazing that we can restock the Wolf with years of reserch and $dollars and can't figure out a way to reintroduce or repopulate Quail.
Where did they release wolves that they weren't native? They were native here in IL and points north and west of here. I have never heard they didn't cross the border. I think the difference is an almost complete change in the habitat in the area which changes the whole eco-system. I don't think we needed wolves re-introduced any where since their only purpose was to control some of the game spicies that were already under control. Beyond that it was just some animal lover thinking it would be neat to see wolves in someone else's backyard.ultracarry wrote:They should be treating the wolves as an invasive species in the west. Those Canadian wolves were never a part of the ecosystem. In an attempt to " bring wolves back" into the areas they did not take into account they were introduceing a non native predator that would reproduce faster than they ever imagined.
Think of the wild pig population, non native species that was introduced and is now a disaster. Eurasian doves, non native muscles in certain lakes, non native fish..... Come on. Because someone believes wolves are beautiful animals does not mean they should be put into the ecosystem where they never existed.
Kill them all.
The TYPE of wolf they introduced in Wyo. was not native. In Mn., Wi., and Mi., the wolves are native to those states. They cross back and forth on the ice from Ontario or wander in. Whole different program and different animal.ezzy333 wrote:Where did they release wolves that they weren't native? They were native here in IL and points north and west of here. I have never heard they didn't cross the border. I think the difference is an almost complete change in the habitat in the area which changes the whole eco-system. I don't think we needed wolves re-introduced any where since their only purpose was to control some of the game spicies that were already under control. Beyond that it was just some animal lover thinking it would be neat to see wolves in someone else's backyard.ultracarry wrote:They should be treating the wolves as an invasive species in the west. Those Canadian wolves were never a part of the ecosystem. In an attempt to " bring wolves back" into the areas they did not take into account they were introduceing a non native predator that would reproduce faster than they ever imagined.
Think of the wild pig population, non native species that was introduced and is now a disaster. Eurasian doves, non native muscles in certain lakes, non native fish..... Come on. Because someone believes wolves are beautiful animals does not mean they should be put into the ecosystem where they never existed.
Kill them all.
Ezzy
Exactly and if farmers would leave those hedge rows between fields the way they used to. But farmers need every inch of land to get by too I guess.gonehuntin' wrote:The wolf has no loss of habitat; they roam millions of acres. Quail and pheasant need cover. Stop farmers from plowing under game bird habitat and the birds will come back. With birds, waterfowl or upland, it's all about habitat.Meller wrote:I find it amazing that we can restock the Wolf with years of reserch and $dollars and can't figure out a way to reintroduce or repopulate Quail.
It's common knowledge in these parts. Like mentioned above we had the Rocky Mtn Wolf....similar in size to the smaller timber wolf. What was introduced was the Canadian Grey Wolf. Same SPECIES technically but different subspecies. Thus why we have the "thrill killing" of the Canadian Grey Wolf which hunts most of the time just for thrill and practice if you will. Countless numbers of elk kills are come across every year that are barely eaten.ezzy333 wrote:I know the northern animals are larger by necessity but that doesn't mean it is a different spiece. I had never heard they were different.
Ezzy
There are hundreds of acres of habitat without a bird on it.I think its time to look beyond habitat loss seems there are other problems other than habitat loss before turkeys were released here you could move 8-10 covies a day same places now there isnt a bird, the habitat is the same or better.Sharon wrote:Exactly and if farmers would leave those hedge rows between fields the way they used to. But farmers need every inch of land to get by too I guess.gonehuntin' wrote:The wolf has no loss of habitat; they roam millions of acres. Quail and pheasant need cover. Stop farmers from plowing under game bird habitat and the birds will come back. With birds, waterfowl or upland, it's all about habitat.Meller wrote:I find it amazing that we can restock the Wolf with years of reserch and $dollars and can't figure out a way to reintroduce or repopulate Quail.
tn red wrote:There are hundreds of acres of habitat without a bird on it.I think its time to look beyond habitat loss seems there are other problems other than habitat loss before turkeys were released here you could move 8-10 covies a day same places now there isnt a bird, the habitat is the same or better.Sharon wrote:Exactly and if farmers would leave those hedge rows between fields the way they used to. But farmers need every inch of land to get by too I guess.gonehuntin' wrote:
The wolf has no loss of habitat; they roam millions of acres. Quail and pheasant need cover. Stop farmers from plowing under game bird habitat and the birds will come back. With birds, waterfowl or upland, it's all about habitat.
I don't deny that. But habitat is THE key element. Without habitat you will NEVER have birds. With it, you MAY have birds.tn red wrote:
There are hundreds of acres of habitat without a bird on it.I think its time to look beyond habitat loss seems there are other problems other than habitat loss before turkeys were released here you could move 8-10 covies a day same places now there isnt a bird, the habitat is the same or better.
Even without "thrill killing", which wolves do, a typical Wi. wolf eats the equivalent of 18 deer a year. There is a very high fawn mortality from wolves, fawns being the slowest and weakest of deer, so factor that in, an 30 deer per wolf per year is a more realistic figure. This means in Wi. we lose about 24,000 deer a year to wolves. In Mn. it is about 75,000.POk3s wrote: Thus why we have the "thrill killing" of the Canadian Grey Wolf which hunts most of the time just for thrill and practice if you will. Countless numbers of elk kills are come across every year that are barely eaten.
Good reason to introduce wolves into Ohio.gonehuntin' wrote:
...a typical Wi. wolf eats the equivalent of 18 deer a year. There is a very high fawn mortality from wolves, fawns being the slowest and weakest of deer, so factor that in, an 30 deer per wolf per year is a more realistic figure. This means in Wi. we lose about 24,000 deer a year to wolves. In Mn. it is about 75,000.
In our state, the wolf has a range of about 11,000 sq miles, about 17% of the square miles in our state. No wonder that the hunters that hunt the wolf range complain about a lack of deer sightings. That is a pile of deer to take from a small section of the state.
Can they be taught to eat pigs? If so, bring 'em on.Mountaineer wrote:Good reason to introduce wolves into Ohio.gonehuntin' wrote:
...a typical Wi. wolf eats the equivalent of 18 deer a year. There is a very high fawn mortality from wolves, fawns being the slowest and weakest of deer, so factor that in, an 30 deer per wolf per year is a more realistic figure. This means in Wi. we lose about 24,000 deer a year to wolves. In Mn. it is about 75,000.
In our state, the wolf has a range of about 11,000 sq miles, about 17% of the square miles in our state. No wonder that the hunters that hunt the wolf range complain about a lack of deer sightings. That is a pile of deer to take from a small section of the state.
Slam the deer....maybe the raccoons.
Just a pipe dream tho.
Just and FYI:jlp8cornell wrote:Greyhounds (Hound group), Whippets (Hound group) and Italian Greyhounds (Toy group) are all separate breeds recognized by the AKC. As Ezzy said, the dogs used for hunting are Greyhounds, the largest.
Along these lines, article that was in the NYT last year that some might find interesting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/sport ... wanted=all
I'm not arguing that at all. I'm just arguing the fact that we "wouldn't see a wolf that weighs over 100 lbs in the lower 48"....which has already happened countless times in the Idaho/Montana seasons. I agree with you completely.gonehuntin' wrote:Even without "thrill killing", which wolves do, a typical Wi. wolf eats the equivalent of 18 deer a year. There is a very high fawn mortality from wolves, fawns being the slowest and weakest of deer, so factor that in, an 30 deer per wolf per year is a more realistic figure. This means in Wi. we lose about 24,000 deer a year to wolves. In Mn. it is about 75,000.POk3s wrote: Thus why we have the "thrill killing" of the Canadian Grey Wolf which hunts most of the time just for thrill and practice if you will. Countless numbers of elk kills are come across every year that are barely eaten.
In our state, the wolf has a range of about 11,000 sq miles, about 17% of the square miles in our state. No wonder that the hunters that hunt the wolf range complain about a lack of deer sightings. That is a pile of deer to take from a small section of the state.
That was an absolutely riveting and fascinating movie. Thanks for posting the link.POk3s wrote:Here you go. This is THE BEST documentary I've seen done and says everything about what I'm trying to say. If you've got an hour give this a watch. Well worth it and only available free on line for a short time longer.
http://cryingwolfmovie.com/
Well I shoulda said egyptian since that is where the entire breed originally came from but I sure didnt want to confuse anyone. We used the retired racers to run the yote to ground then the kill dog was sent in to finish the yote off. The breeders round here refer to them as being from italy and some say england so it is easy to confuse these dogs they are one of the oldest breeds in the world. A lot of states have outlawed usingdogs in any form for hunting which is too bad. I dont see anyone using them around here now like 30 years ago.I think its just a little confusion, when you called your dogs Italian greyhounds many people automatically think of the akc version
sckwest1 wrote:Do wolves get that big or is that guy a midget? What did that monster weight as he appears to be awful fat besides simply giant. SCK
The average male wolf in MN (according to MN DNR) weigh between 70-110 lbs. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some 100lb+ wolfs killed here.RoostersMom wrote: Not to be argumentative, but these wolves were not killed in Idaho.... and several sites claim they are hoax pictures. The average Gray Wolf male weighs in at 75lbs. The biggest ever recorded shot was in Canada and it weighed in at 175. The farther north you go, the larger the animals. It is unlikely that the lower 48 will see wolves in the 100lb range. I've never seen those statistics on hounds killed by wolves, but I do know that if hounds are run in the spring near dens, they are really in a lot of danger. My pointer got caught in a leghold a few years past - no damage to her.
Trent, exactly! What this whole "wolf debate" is about isn't legality, morality, or game managment. It is WAAAY bigger than that. This is the ANTI-HUNTING ESTABLISHMENT versus the American Hunter.This is what people from other parts of the country don't understand, and it shocks me, especially when hunters say to leave the wolf alone. It's a non-native species that needs to be managed....just like every other form of animal and especially predators. Am I saying wolves have no right on this earth and they should all be killed? Absolutely not but they need to be managed instead of simply aloud to expand to countless numbers so that they can virtually kill off every ungulate in a valley, move to the next valley, kill every ungulate in that valley, and so on.
Now thats very hard to do with corn at 6.50a bushel and it is going to go up, they want to maximize their profit. Around here they leave a "buffer strip" around the fields but there are no game birds why? predation. Not one person set a trap this winter here, turkey population is skyrocketing, yotes run thru thefield behind my house every night, I can hear em yipping and such.Stop farmers from plowing under game bird habitat and the birds will come back. With birds, waterfowl or upland, it's all about habitat.
Gift shop in any Indian Casino.asc wrote:I just want to know where I can get one of those cool Dreamcatcher things with a beautiful Indian princess and a white wolf painted on it?
I dont have an answer for that excepting that the sd and nd folks put out feed and tend to farm them birds so I dont really know. Now in our area the hunter population is huge and this will put a lot of pressure on the birds. Also there are places still hold birds and others that do not in the same county. I used to have a good crop of wild pheasants in the fields behind my place, havent seen one this year. Quail are still here, but why? I also must ask is the turkey population in SD and ND as large as it is near me? I often see flocks of 100 birds or more now. Some have said the turkeys will eat the ground nesting eggs so I just dont know.Mark, they have the same number of predators you do in N and S Dak., but they have birds. How do you explain that?
That is a touching story, but I think he is looking for the people in California the raised him,then took him on a trip. Oops he ran off with the tracking collor! I've heard a lot of stories about dogs that have traveled acorss the country to get back home. A lot of people out here have wolves for pets. A friend of mine has one that he got from some lady. He keeps it in his backyard. Seems pretty high strung and I never petted it. Has a six foot fence with a hot wire above that. Also this guy is about the size of a deer and just as agile, and he was just a pup the last time I saw it. These guys out here in the west are BIG. When we hunt in Idaho we always hear them, and we never hear song dogs where there's wolves. Dannikegundog wrote:There's been an interesting story in the last couple months, a wolf collared in Oregon has traveled to Cali. which makes him the first wolf known to the state since the early twenties. He's 2 1/2 years old and has traveled over 500 miles (its believed he searching for a mate) he's known by the name OR7 or "Journey".
I agree, this is one of the most argumentative forums I have been a member of. I just dont bother to post most of the time. Too many keyboard warriors.markj wrote:Yes we did, there are several sizes dude...... Not the toy stuff, they never set foot on a track.......or did you miss that?you used Italian Greyhounds
Why is everyone so dead set on being MR. right all the time here?
Can you post a link to an article about this spin to the story?chukarmandoo wrote:That is a touching story, but I think he is looking for the people in California the raised him,then took him on a trip. Oops he ran off with the tracking collor! I've heard a lot of stories about dogs that have traveled acorss the country to get back home. A lot of people out here have wolves for pets. A friend of mine has one that he got from some lady. He keeps it in his backyard. Seems pretty high strung and I never petted it. Has a six foot fence with a hot wire above that. Also this guy is about the size of a deer and just as agile, and he was just a pup the last time I saw it. These guys out here in the west are BIG. When we hunt in Idaho we always hear them, and we never hear song dogs where there's wolves. Dannikegundog wrote:There's been an interesting story in the last couple months, a wolf collared in Oregon has traveled to Cali. which makes him the first wolf known to the state since the early twenties. He's 2 1/2 years old and has traveled over 500 miles (its believed he searching for a mate) he's known by the name OR7 or "Journey".
I was wondering if there was any experts (biologists) who believed that this wolf is looking for his owner. The wolf in this case was shot with a tranquilizer dart from a helicopter in the wild, I had never heard any talk by experts that felt he was a tame wolf that had been released or anything along those lines. I was wondering if there were any article out where an expert felt that it may be the case.chukarmandoo wrote:I don't know which part? If you are referring to what I said about dogs returning home from long distances than just do a search for " dog returning home after traveling long distances". If you are referring to people having Wolves than do a search on " Wolf hybrid for sale ". Hope this helps. As for someone doing this with a plan? Don't think so. BUT I do think that there are alot of activist that would release Hybrid Wolves into areas to support reintroduction. Especially in Oregon, where they are protected by the masses of city dwellers that love all the " Disney talking animal shows". Could one make it back? Maybe the owner should have released the mate also! Dan
P.S. One of the reasons thay are on the ISL in the west is Wyoming wouldn't go along with the USDW plan. Wyoming classifies them as non protected in their view. So USDW put pressure on the rest of the NW saying it would not allow hunting in Montana and Idaho until Wyoming got on board. Well Wyoming didn't so after while Montana and Idaho grew a pair and opened a season. I carry some 00 buck when I hunt Chukar and Grouse. Comes in handy some times. Lots of coyotes and cats in my neck of the woods.
Wolves travel huge distances. An Arctic White Wolf migrated to Montana years ago and was shot there. We got all of our wolves in Wi. when they migrated here from Mn. and Ontario. Wolves have been seen as far south as Chicago (poor misguided wolves). Where I live, we've shot two all ready and we're about 400 miles from wolf country.nikegundog wrote:I was wondering if there was any experts (biologists) who believed that this wolf is looking for his owner. The wolf in this case was shot with a tranquilizer dart from a helicopter in the wild, I had never heard any talk by experts that felt he was a tame wolf that had been released or anything along those lines. I was wondering if there were any article out where an expert felt that it may be the case.chukarmandoo wrote:I don't know which part? If you are referring to what I said about dogs returning home from long distances than just do a search for " dog returning home after traveling long distances". If you are referring to people having Wolves than do a search on " Wolf hybrid for sale ". Hope this helps. As for someone doing this with a plan? Don't think so. BUT I do think that there are alot of activist that would release Hybrid Wolves into areas to support reintroduction. Especially in Oregon, where they are protected by the masses of city dwellers that love all the " Disney talking animal shows". Could one make it back? Maybe the owner should have released the mate also! Dan
P.S. One of the reasons thay are on the ISL in the west is Wyoming wouldn't go along with the USDW plan. Wyoming classifies them as non protected in their view. So USDW put pressure on the rest of the NW saying it would not allow hunting in Montana and Idaho until Wyoming got on board. Well Wyoming didn't so after while Montana and Idaho grew a pair and opened a season. I carry some 00 buck when I hunt Chukar and Grouse. Comes in handy some times. Lots of coyotes and cats in my neck of the woods.