Pigeon Pole?

[jimbo&rooster]

I have talked to a couple people who use pigeon poles, but it seems as though most of them only use them with young dogs.

Im wanting to start getting serious about stop to flush with a 10mo old pup, and start breaking him, but I know that the older breeding birds I bought wont home. so Until I can get some homers going, or can get some junk pigeons bought/trapped I was hoping to be able to use a pigeon pole.

How old do you guys use a pigeon pole? Can I use a launcher with the pigeon pole?

Jim

[WPBS1234]

I think that will work for what you are trying to do. I would keep in mind doing this repetitively would be allowing delayed chase. I would also make sure that your dog does not catch the bird.

[ibbowhunting]

http://www.gundogsonline.com/video/hunt ... ng-dog.htm

this may help, i'm not sure how to make it a link

[brad27]

I think that will work for what you are trying to do. I would keep in mind doing this repetitively would be allowing delayed chase. I would also make sure that your dog does not catch the bird.

Not dissagreeing with you, but it depends on how many poles you have out and how you use them. The only thing I like the poles for is teaching "not" to delay chase. If you put out 3-4 poles and work the dog only once on each bird it should be fine. (although I really don't like using them)

[tailcrackin]

Jim, I am not a fan on for the breaking work, I have used them for other booger issues. Here is a question to ponder on.........dog is doing good, really enjoying everything.....what will you do when you walk out to the field, and it starts pointing the area, or the pole? This does, and will possibly happen. Just something to think on. There was few videos of dogs being worked on pigeon pole, watch them, and watch the dogs reactions. Thanks Jonesy

[AzDoggin]

There are lots of other options to "re-use" wild pigeons in training

carded pigeons
tethered (with a length of garden hose)
pull a few flight feathers
combining a launcher with one of these allows you to control both the "when" and the "how far."

Maybe it depends on the size of your training grounds (or number of trees)? If space is no problem - no reason to use the pole really. You will get a more "natural" effect using one of the methods above IMO.

[DonF]

Jim, I am not a fan on for the breaking work, I have used them for other booger issues. Here is a question to ponder on.........dog is doing good, really enjoying everything.....what will you do when you walk out to the field, and it starts pointing the area, or the pole? This does, and will possibly happen. Just something to think on. There was few videos of dogs being worked on pigeon pole, watch them, and watch the dogs reactions. Thanks Jonesy

I used to mark my traps in the field with a straighten coat hanger and small piece of surveyors tape. Dog's learned fast to go to the tape. So I started putting the hanger's in about 30yds up wind of the traps and the dogs went to them and found nothing. Make sure they are upwind so the dog get's a nose full of nothing when it gets there. I found with my doy's now, they went out and looked for the antenas. My boy's do get really sticky if they think I've planted a bird in my starter field for them but if I had any kind of marker they'd be going to it and pointing.

I have only used the pigeon pole one and once I got from the dog what I wanted, I picked up the dog and carried it away from the area. I didn't care for it! But I'll also say that if that is all you have, use it! Pay attention to what your doing and learn to read well what the dog is telling you. Don't give the dog the chance to delay chase. And get someone else to help by flushing the bird for you. I would prefer the pole to carded pigeon's. Carded pigeons just don't do well with tree's, power lines ect.

[tailcrackin]

Agree Don, I use blaze or yarn on my antennas on releasers or launchers. Dogs are color blind and wont see the or yarn. You use to many card board birds, and dogs will start pointing any loose trash in field, also. I think its a "just to be safe" thought on the dog. I was just mentioning to help him, think outside the box. Thanks, Jonesy

[Sharon]

I haven't used a pigeon pole but watched my pro trainer use one.

He hooked the dog up to a whoa post (tree); he shackled the pigeon to the line of the in-ground clotheline. One person swung the bird and the other steadied the dog.

[tailcrackin]

So, what is he getting accomplished in that set up? How will the dog learn on its bird manners, from doing that set up of work? Will it ever be in that situation, in a wild bird hunt, or in the trials, or tests? See what I am asking? How is the dog gonna learn.......the bird isnt ever gonna be shackled, right? It might do a lil puppy hop in the trial.....but hopefully, it isnt ready for that part of things when its presented........meaning...I dont like bombs to blow, until I have gotten the dog ready, for the bombs to blow. Meaning working and doing the proofing part of training. Why do the set ups in training, that are un natural for the dogs life. It seems like you get a more positive result, from the dog......with the bird flying away, and the ground work, with the dog staying in a normal situation. When the bird gets gone, seems like the dog will calm itself, and take it all in. This is only my opinion, on the work, and dogs. Thanks Sharon, Jonesy

[jimbo&rooster]

Thanks for the help guys.

Jonesy, the things you mentioned are a few of the things i have been worried about. I may just take a step back fro a minute until I can get some feral birds or just some junk pigeons, and then just pop them from the launcher and let them fly until i can get some homers. I have not had real good luck with carded birds so I was considering the pigeon pole.

By the way Jonesy, Ol' Rooster retrieved several birds to hand this fall and he is back on the road to breaking. thanks.

Jim

[AzDoggin]

dogs will start pointing any loose trash in field, also.

Oh, man. Imagine working this wash:

[JIM K]

i never saw that before. i trap all my pigeons in my yard.
its easy.
but i never used pole.
i walk in brush, heavy brush with toby when he was young.
i would carry 4 pigeons in my backpack.
i would drop a bird in brush and lay orange ribbon on top QUICK so toby did not see me doing it.
i had pigeons wings tied .
then i woulD turn around INTO wind AND HUNT TOBY BACK TOWARDS PLANTED BIRDS.
AFTER TOBY WAS CLOSE AND ON TOO BIRD,I WOULD TIE HIS ROPE ON LAURAL BUSHH, WALK AHEAD OF HIM AND UNTIE THE PIGEON SAYING whoa, whoa, whoa.

pigeon would fly away.
next day i would catch 5 more birds and keep them for 3 days and do it all over again in a DIFFERENT SPOT.

it worked great but toby likes to FLUSH.he points if he feels like it.
but labs are flushers.
but he knows what a bird is

[phoneman45]

jimbo,

I used a pole with a Brittany when he was 8 months old. it is a great training tool. never seen one used with a bird launcher though. Another option is to use flagged pigeons. Tie a piece of heavy cardboard the size of a business envelope to one leg and then plant him. He can make successive flights which will allow u multiple bird contacts but cant get away. he will tire quickly so make sure the dog doesnt catch him. Good luck

eric

[DonF]

There are so many things that actually work that it amazes me. Even some Rube Goldburg stuff! It's my opinion though that the easiest route is with a loft of pigeons, a remote release trap or three and a good check cord. If your near a good source of pigeons, a pigeon trap could take the place of a loft. An assistent and a check cord can take the place of a remote trap set. Even this pigeon pole I'm sure could be made to work. What won't work is not training at all. Absolutely amazing the things dogs can pick up on!

[Wyndancer]

jimbo,

I used a pole with a Brittany when he was 8 months old. it is a great training tool. never seen one used with a bird launcher though. Another option is to use flagged pigeons. Tie a piece of heavy cardboard the size of a business envelope to one leg and then plant him. He can make successive flights which will allow u multiple bird contacts but cant get away. he will tire quickly so make sure the dog doesnt catch him. Good luck

eric

The pigeon pole with a launcher can be used to steady the dog to the fall of the bird. You come in with the dog, let him establish point...fly the bird..and just as the bird gets to the end of the string, fire a blank. When the pigeon gets to the end, they normally fall to the ground. And that is pretty tempting for a dog.

[JIM K]

i think, not knowing a lot about this pole thing or training pointing dog, I LIKE IDEA of both ways.
seeing pigeon fall and shooting your pistol ,BOY THAT HAS TO WORK GREAT ON DOG.
i like idea a lot and is ,i feel good way to train a puppy to shot thing without killing bird at first.

[birddogger]

Whatever works for you! There are so many different methods and you use what resources are available to you. A lot of these things can have their place, if used properly. JMO.

Charlie

[snips]

Not a fan....

[DonF]

I guess that something needs to be said. I am not a fan of the pole, but, it really is no more than a training aide. Use it properly and your dog will learn, use it wrong and your dog will still learn but, it'll be thing's you'd rather it didn't learn. Find someone that really knows how to use it and have them help you a bit. You'll either like it or not but then you can move on. There is nothing your gonna teach your dog in just a few session's that can't be fixed.

[4dabirds]

I think the pigeon pole is good to show the dog that when he can see a bird he still has to stay on point. Not too much to encourage sight pointing but enough to keep the dog from coming unglued when the bird visually presents itself. If a dog is hunting in a field and has no scent of a bird but sees one it should know what to do.

[zamboxl]

don't mean to hijack but could someone point me in the direction of one of them remote release pigeon traps?

[jimbo&rooster]

don't mean to hijack but could someone point me in the direction of one of them remote release pigeon traps?

Gundog supply, Lion country supply, cabelas, bass pro....... Pretty much any where that sells bird dog training supplys sells the remote launchers.

Jim

[zamboxl]

k ty