Lab or chessie?

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Sfd714
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Lab or chessie?

Post by Sfd714 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:19 pm

which is better male or female?
Which is easier to train? Black, Yellow, Chocolate?
Should I get a British or American?
I hear chessies are aggressive and stubborn, is it true?

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Brazosvalleyvizslas
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:45 pm

Well the best labs I have ever witnessed came from Wildrose Kennels. There is a reason why they are Orvis endorsed and Ducks Unlimited gets their maskots from them. With that said there are many good breeders many of which may bs members here so I'm not suggesting that is your only option. The answer to the question about color? The saying many years ago was "you can have any color Lab you want as long as it's black." :D

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Back
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Back » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:56 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Well the best labs I have ever witnessed came from Wildrose Kennels. There is a reason why they are Orvis endorsed and Ducks Unlimited gets their maskots from them. With that said there are many good breeders many of which may bs members here so I'm not suggesting that is your only option. The answer to the question about color? The saying many years ago was "you can have any color Lab you want as long as it's black." :D
Are you sure you didn't get that confused with Henry Ford and the Model T...?

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Double Shot Banks
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Double Shot Banks » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:01 pm

I have heard the same about chessies, i hear they are more serious, work dogs, and i know from past dogs labs work to please you, fromt he heart
all the colors are the same with training, but yellow is harder to see in pheasant grass
i like males better because they have big legs. chest, and they look large and they have a nice blockhead, but if you dont nueter it they will be peeing on every stick they see and possible getting your buddies dogs pregnant
Isaac and Banks

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Brazosvalleyvizslas
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:04 pm

No, it's an old statement that some trainers used when Chocolates first came out. I believe it started with a well known trainer in England. It was a tongue in cheek statement.

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Doc E » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:51 pm

Personally, I'm not a fan of Ehglish (Wildrose type) dogs.
Lab or Chessie --- just look at the titles on dogs and that will give you your answer.... Labs by a HUGE margin.
Chessie have heart and strength -- Labs have ability.
Color ? Blacks and Yellows have a lot more titled dogs than Chocos.
Male ? Female ? --------- Your choice.
Females come in heat twice a year. Males are in heat all the time. I still prefer males.



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Brazosvalleyvizslas
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:15 pm

Doc, don't take this as anything but a question put up for discussion. I agree wholeheartedly with you about labs, chessies and color but have you personally worked with or hunted with any Wild Rose dogs or are you basing your opinion on the English part? The dogs are extremely intelligent, biddable, lots of drive and are titled to the max. Their tests and titles maybe different but the dogs still need all of the qualities to achieve those titles. We are talking hunting and not trialing, right?

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by duckn66 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:28 pm

Color makes no difference, breeding makes all the difference, in a lab or Chessie. Females come in heat twice a year and males are always in heat as Doc said.

Chessies are not stubborn or hard headed. They are actually very intelligent dogs and require a thinking man to train one. It's been my experience with them that once they get something they have it and are ready to move on no need to keep repeating. They actually don't respond well at all to a heavy hand, at least none of mine did. They have big hearts and tons of drive. Born and bred for the water as a lab was and make outstanding upland dogs. Only thing about them is once in a while you will get a water freak that just cannot stay out of the water. My last one was that way. He practically lived in my pond in the front yard. They can be protective which some people translate to aggressive. My last one had to be muzzled at the vet. Did not like to be messed with by a stranger, but who does?

Someone with more experience with them than me will be along to correct my short comings and/or add more. My next retriever will definately be a Chessie. I absolutely love them.

As far as size in either breed I will take the smallest one I can get. My BLF weighs in at a whopping 60lbs but most of that is heart. She knows no quit and unfortunately does not have an "off" switch.

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by jackie916 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:00 pm

Go with the labrador. Chessies are more aggresive (at least the ones i've met.) I find female dogs easier to work with, but thats your call, whatever you choose, get them fixed. I don't think color make much of a difference, but i've heard that chocolates are "quirky"

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Doc E » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:42 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Doc, don't take this as anything but a question put up for discussion. I agree wholeheartedly with you about labs, chessies and color but have you personally worked with or hunted with any Wild Rose dogs or are you basing your opinion on the English part? The dogs are extremely intelligent, biddable, lots of drive and are titled to the max. Their tests and titles maybe different but the dogs still need all of the qualities to achieve those titles. We are talking hunting and not trialing, right?
I've hunted over a couple WildRose dogs. They are fine -- I just prefer dogs with more "fire" as exhibited by American Field Bred Labs.
As far as "titled to the max" -- yes they are, in their own 'doggie games' ---- virtually none in American Field Trials.



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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by sdsujacks » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:04 am

Look at the picture and determine what one looks best to you, then get that color. There is no difference between them. Yellows look "friendliest." Chocolates look "tough." Blacks look "toughest and determined." They all have the same drive, temperament, etc. Blacks are easiest to see while pheasant hunting. Yellows are tough to spot at times in tall grass while pheasant hunting, but they are easier to spot in water IMO.
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by QuillGordon » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:04 pm

Labrador, American, male, yellow, thee harder the head the better

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by MHWH » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:56 pm

I don't like the protective or aggressive attitude people talk about in relation to Chessies. I also
don't like the oily coat, or the color. They also tend to have straight front legs, sort of peg legged. This
makes it tough on them to run for long periods.

As far as the English look, or the American field lab look, I prefer the American look. I have had three and have one now.
He is a whopping 50 lbs. These dogs can be, as mine have been, very athletic, and have great endurance in the upland field.
I have never seen a big Lab (75lbs or more) that could run with dogs like this. I have friends who said their big Lab could run all day. When we hunted they sometimes did, but the amount of ground they covered was all within 30 yards of the owners all day. My dogs cover much more area than that. The numbers of miles these Labs cover compared to the big Labs
is not comparable.

I prefer black. I like the pads and the nose to be black because it is tougher, less skin problems. I like the idea that in any sort of trail there are always way more black dogs winning than yellows or chocolate, meaning I think you will more likely get a good hunting dog in the black color. All Labs have black genetics.

All this is my opinion and experience your mileage may vary.

Mike

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Sfd714
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Sfd714 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:38 pm

Not sure iv seen a English lab. What's the difference between and English and American?

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by deke » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:49 pm

Having both yellow and black, American and english, small and big. I would have to say that the small american black is by far a superior hunter. He covers way more ground, with half as much effort and can go all day.

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Doc E » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:46 pm

MHWH wrote: I like the idea that in any sort of trail there are always way more black dogs winning than yellows or chocolate, meaning I think you will more likely get a good hunting dog in the black color. All Labs have black genetics.

Mike
More Blacks win because more Blacks are entered.
Percentage wise, Yellows are better.



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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Waterdogs1 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:40 pm

I have trained for over 17 year and have seen three good Chessies. One was a MH with Derby points, One a field trial dog and the other a gun dog. I pick the breeding the bloodlines, health clearances and so on. I study them and know parents,grand parent and if possible great grand parents. As far as color you are going to find more blacks from better working bloodlines then yellow and next chocolates. I like any good working dog but to me it is just as easy to feed one that looks good and does the work as the other. It is hard if you have nothing to compare to a french poodle might look like a super hero if you have been retrieving your own birds. I am in the market for a good yellow female but havn't found a breeding I like yet. Next is finding a breeder that stands behind their pups.

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by crackerd » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:23 am

Good response, WD - and another clarification that needs to be made for our less enlightened (but gung-ho marketing) responders is that "English" is the euphemism for American show Labs, British Labs is what we call these from overseas who work (and/or run field trials and HTs)

Image

And Brazos - "best Labs witnessed" at doing what, exactly, when it comes to WailRose? Reckon you've been deprived or sheltered of watching working Labs, whether in a duck blind or at trials, and going by the Orvis and DU stamps of approval, which mean absolutely nothing insofar as bonafides for a working retriever?

MG

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:37 am

MG, I grew up in S.E, Texas owning, hunting, guiding and training labs. I didn't say anything negative about ANY line of labs!!!!! I love watching good trial dogs work. The 2 Wildrose dogs that I hunted with were completely trained by Mike Stewart so maybe that something to do with my impression. They were machines with a huge amount of drive and extremely intelligent. I'm not sure what else someone would want in a hunting dog.

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by crackerd » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:03 am

Appreciate the followup, Brazos. We're not necessarily in dispute here - more a case of agreeing on one thing and maybe being more in agreement on another. Like I think the best college football team in the country at the end of the season resides nearby for you, aTm - but I know the crystal football resides with the national champion Crimson Tide of Alabama. British Labs, Wailrose's included, got plenty of firepower, it's all down to how they're trained for letting them show it. "English" Labs, it's all down to how (much) you feed them - and no matter how they're trained, ain't likely to be much firepower come of it.

MG

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:49 am

Crackerd, your civil response is respected as is your opinion. I would love to hear why you refer to them as Wailrose as I've had a deposit down on one for 6 years now and was thinking about picking a pup. If you have any info or opinion on the dogs I would love to hear it as you may save me the rest of the $1k. Notice in my post that I never suggested "English" over American, I was specific in a breeder that I'm confident could provide what the OP was looking for, a hunting dog. Feel free to provide me with some good American breeders as I'm moving back to Texas and will need atleast one Lab to compliment my pointers. PM if necessary

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by crackerd » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:13 pm

No shortage of good American or British-American breeders out there, Brazos - of the latter, I would look into Dublem Gundogs and Maj. Bud Clouse out in Nebraska, Double TT Kennel in Kansas and especially Tom Hamilton at Bracken Fen Gundogs (who in the opinion of many is the reputable British breeder in Mississippi), and even far smaller "hobbyist" breeders who I'm personally familiar with but won't name here.

American performance Labs, now you're talking about the best-bred dogs (insofar as health clearances and testing - and capability) on the planet, and "no shortage of them" only hints at what's available. And they're the best bargain among gundog breeds too - because most of the breeders ain't in it for the money but for producing quality pups that better the breed. The health guarantees these pups come with are bankable too. You can find a good sampling, for comparison's sake pricewise, in a forum almost "next door" and currently listing a number of outstanding litters from Tejas:
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums ... ab-Puppies

MG

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Brazosvalleyvizslas
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:07 pm

Thanks Brotha. I will do some shopping and may just pick up one of each and see how they come out.

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Fester » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:40 pm

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Anybody want to put the colors to these?

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by tdhusker » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:46 pm

Growing up, I got to duck hunt on the North Platte river with my Father and his friends. Nearly all serious duck hunters then had chessies and I've seen some outstanding ones. There is no better water retriever IMO. Fast current, ice, miserable conditions... can't beat em. Until you have to take them home... labs are so much easier to live with.

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by nikegundog » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:27 pm


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Grange
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by Grange » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:47 pm

I grew up with chessies and currently own a lab. If I were primarily a waterfowl hunter I'd own a chessie without a doubt. Some dogs like water, some dogs love water and then there is the chessie. If I was more of an upland hunter, which I am, then I'd choose a lab between the two.
Last edited by Grange on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by eyeonbird » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:33 pm

Great Determination in the video....however i would never put my dogs through that...just plain stupid.

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Post by birddog1968 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:53 pm

video means little, labs can break waves too....I could even dig up one of labs retrieving 200lb seals.....still don't prove nothing. Both are great retrievers.

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