Why do we lionize wild birds?

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Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Scott Linden » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:31 pm

While you see me hunt a lot of preserve birds on TV (for the record, about half of my shows), I hunt a lot of wild birds for work and fun (about 40-60 days per year). To me, both have something to offer us and our dogs. But many have strong feelings about wild versus pen-raised birds. So, here's your chance - WHY WILD?

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by RoostersMom » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:41 pm

For me, it's about the challenge of wild birds vs the certainty of pen-reared birds. It's about the wild places they live in and its very important to me to know that the habitat is right for the wildlife in that area. Going to an "island" of habitat at a preserve and knowing that the area doesn't support wild birds (which means it likely doesn't support other wild bird/mammals/pollinators/herps, etc.) is just less of an experience for me. You can shoot pen reared birds in a wal mart parking lot. That isn't "wild places" for me.

Re-pen reared birds, the people are good, the dogs are good, bird contacts are there. Wild birds: the knowing that you're hunting wild birds in wild places is what does it for me.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by GSP7 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:21 pm

I shoot 100% wild birds on my TV show .

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by duckn66 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:24 pm

I totally agree with what was posted above.

I'm fortunate enough to live in a state with (usually) good populations of wild birds. I hunted preserve birds one time and it did absolutely nothing for me. I like the uncertainy of finding birds. I like the all thats involved in finding them from scouting to letting the dogs out.

I'm fortunate enough to have a section of ground to train on and a supply of birds to train with. But, I understand that for some it's the only game in town for both hunting and training.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by mm » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:29 am

Wild birds are more fun to hunt but are hard to find. For most of us it requires a lot of time and travel. Some never get the chance. I myself have never hunted wild quail but hope to some day. I hunt wild grouse and Huns but it is a big deal for me to do it. As for preserve hunting there is nothing wrong with it and the right preserve can be lots of fun. The downside of preserve hunting is it is real expensive for the good ones. I am sure the high end ones on your show are great but a lot of preserves are about putting 10 or 15 birds out on a small groomed field and then shooting them in a morning. I don't enjoy that I guess it is a lot of money to run a preserve and I know the land is expensive and so the good ones are priced very high. I have not hunted a preserve in a few years because of the cost and the small areas assigned to hunt. The last preserve I hunted allowed hunting the birds leftover out on the grounds from the weekend during the week and it was great, sadly it closed to bird hunting in favor of deer hunting. I would guess that a persons outlook on preserve hunting would be reflected by the preserve he hunted on. I see hundreds of preserves advertised on the internet but it is hard to tell which are the good ones. However wild birds are never to easy and the area they are in is never to small and they are never easy to shoot, bottom line is they always are fun to hunt if you can find them. There is nothing like being alone out in Montana with your dog walking on thousands of acres looking for Sharptails and no preserve can duplicate that.
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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Fieldwalker » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:26 am

One is a challenge... one is not... A great wild bird hunter can/will always be succesfull as a pheasant preserve... and great pheasant preserve hunter will not always be succesfull hunting wild birds.

Now trout ponds are still the real deal...

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:04 am

Preserve hunting is what you make it. I have hunted them for many years and to date I have had 5 or 6 birds put out and that is always when I am working a puppy. But our normal routine is to hunt the middle of the week when there is seldom anyone else around and any birds you find are what have been left over from the weeks before. By that time the birds are reacting like the native birds and the hunting is very much the same. I have a lot of trouble determining how wild a bird is when it is running down a corn or milo row 100 feet in front of the dogs or when it flushes wild yards away before you can get near it. And wildness seems unapparent when you get the occasional cock that will set so tight it will let you walk by if the dogs don't locate for you. I will admit I come home without a bird many times but I am not out there to kill birds. But I have never come home totally upset because A bird I saw or harvested wasn't wild enough.

Sadly our birds are about gone and that won't change much as long as we have to feed a world of people. But there is still room for better conservation practices than what we experience such as retire the mowers till fall at least and let some of the marginal ground next to timbers and waterways lay fallow or undisturbed so there is a place for birds to nest and feed.

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Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by ACooper » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:10 am

Preserve birds are better than no birds, but hunting wild birds to me is far and away better, more challenging for me and the dogs.

I doubt I would continue to bird hunt if all I had was preserves to hunt.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by CDN_Cocker » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:16 am

I don't have easy access to a game farm so wild birds are always my choice as I don't have to drive hours upon hours. Wild is all I know lol

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by DoubleBarrel GunDogs » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:26 am

I train dogs on pen raised birds and hunt them on wild birds. I consider them to be different birds, and I believe the dogs do as well. There's something special about seeing the lights come on when a dog figures out how to hunt wild birds. That said, not all pen raised birds are the same. Early released birds can be quite good for transitional training.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:34 am

Perhaps, rather than lionize, respect should be in the question re a wild game bird.

Preserve birds run the gamut of poor to reasonable and that often is directed by the cover present as much as the bird itself...or the attitude of the Preserve.
But it is tough to respect that which $$$s simply plant on a platter for consumption in an hour or two....any of us who have used a Preserve, do try though.
We do all know that wild birds can at times be as simple as the worst of the Preserve birds yet what is absent is guarantee when the truck door slams.
Now, seeing some folks shooting on TV, guarantee may be a bit of a stretch but you get my drift.
We also know that habitat can increase any game bird to a near Preserve experience of volume and surety but taken as a whole...wild birds deserve respect and get it....apart from the occasional use of wild birds as a money and interest draw.
One will have that sorry occasion.

I especially respect a true wild bird such as the ruffed grouse, for example, as it will never, thank you God! :idea: , be found on a Preserve's menu....and that includes the ruffed grouse that some areas of the country will find sitting upon a limb with a cocked head at a hunter's approach.
Even they have a gene of wildness that could never be channeled for someone's afternoon pleasure , or TV show, in a location far from what is normal or viable for their survival.
Again, Well done, Lord.

As has been discussed here ad nauseam, Preserves have unique advantages and benefits, all well distanced from any connection with wild game birds.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by S&J gsp » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:12 am

Wild birds and Pen raised birds I don't know the difference my dogs can't tell the difference I've done both and if you go on prerealesed birds you won't know wild from released. With that said I don't hunt a preserve like most I see here do bird planter comes out of a field and they are in the field. When I go I have them put the birds out an hour before I hunt and never over 2 birds per acre on a small field I normally put less birds. I've had one guy tell me no to putting birds out early and haven't been back. Now wild birds I hunt hard for what I get but I can move at least one covey of quail per trip. But there have been days I've hunted hard and moved none. In Kansas last year three of us moved 60 pheasants and 8 coveys on walk in ground and moved 15 pheasants and 2 coveys on private land in 5 days. With all that said hunting is what you make it wild birds or preserve birds. Next time you go to a preserve and get quail try letting the planter just dump them in the middle of the field and scatter them and see how hard you have to hunt
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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by whatsnext » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:21 am

i have hunted both like most people on here but with wild birds you have to earn them and there is no guarantee that you will see anything or maybe you will only see what you can not shoot.Nothing in life should be easy or free and everything should be earned including birds in the bag.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Gordon Guy » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:43 am

I don't mind hunting Preserve birds, but I ENJOY the hunting of wild birds. To me hunting a preserve is about the killing of birds, numbers, working puppies, marksmanship. Hunting wild birds is about knowledge and know-how. Do I know enough to find the right habitat to find the birds? The number collected doesn't matter. The killing is secondary but none the less essential to have hunted and to be a hunter.
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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Gordon Guy » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:46 am

whatsnext wrote:Nothing in life should be easy or free and everything should be earned including birds in the bag.
+1, Especially the taking of life, the killing of another "being" should be done with respect. So maybe it's a personal ethics "Line in the sand" for some.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by CDN_Cocker » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:00 am

S&J gsp wrote:Wild birds and Pen raised birds I don't know the difference my dogs can't tell the difference I've done both and if you go on prerealesed birds you won't know wild from released
I think I disagree with this. Unless you have bountiful numbers of wild birds in your area.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by S&J gsp » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:35 am

I'll show you when I get home this evening three pics same dog three differnt birds same style

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by will-kelly » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:53 am

In PA we have a healthy Grouse and Woodcock season(if you catch them right. Hurricane screwed things up last year). Pheasants are being managed but they are nothing like the past. I get a chance to hunt them all in a year. I also head to a local preserve and guide for them when asked.

I will give props to the Pennsylvania Game Commission for last year's stocking. The cockbirds were strong flyers and challenging.

For me it is all about a day in the field. With or without a dog. It's the time spent in nature and connecting with the wild environment.

If it's all about the kill then I am not much of a hunter in most people's eyes. There are days where I don't take the shot. Days were the dog runs great and days where I should just put her up in the truck. Days were I miss and she would probably like to put me up in the truck.

For me it's not about what I shoot... it's about the overall experience. Who i spent the day with. What we saw. The pheasant that my buddy shot at that hit the electric tower and fell to it's death.(in his defense we verified 4 pellets just below the skin. He says he planned it to be a good eating pheasant)

In closing, my dog may be able to tell the difference between pen raised and wild but the last time I asked her she said she really didn't care. It must be the Hungarian descent. Ever since the wall fell they have been much more laid back in their thinking. :D

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by ruffbritt4 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:07 am

will-kelly wrote:In PA we have a healthy Grouse and Woodcock season(if you catch them right. Hurricane screwed things up last year). Pheasants are being managed but they are nothing like the past. I get a chance to hunt them all in a year. I also head to a local preserve and guide for them when asked.

I will give props to the Pennsylvania Game Commission for last year's stocking. The cockbirds were strong flyers and challenging.

For me it is all about a day in the field. With or without a dog. It's the time spent in nature and connecting with the wild environment.

If it's all about the kill then I am not much of a hunter in most people's eyes. There are days where I don't take the shot. Days were the dog runs great and days where I should just put her up in the truck. Days were I miss and she would probably like to put me up in the truck.

For me it's not about what I shoot... it's about the overall experience. Who i spent the day with. What we saw. The pheasant that my buddy shot at that hit the electric tower and fell to it's death.(in his defense we verified 4 pellets just below the skin. He says he planned it to be a good eating pheasant)

In closing, my dog may be able to tell the difference between pen raised and wild but the last time I asked her she said she really didn't care. It must be the Hungarian descent. Ever since the wall fell they have been much more laid back in their thinking. :D
That was my exact thought too. If i have a good day afield with my dad and my dog, at a preserve or not, i will always remember that. It is about being out there, even if you don't take a shot all day. So i dont mind preserve bird hunting but wild birds are more challenging.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by GrayDawg » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:14 am

mm wrote:There is nothing like being alone out in Montana with your dog walking on thousands of acres looking for Sharptails and no preserve can duplicate that.
mm
What he said! When I was younger, I was more concerned about birds in the bag at the end of the day.
At this point in my life, I'm more concerned about good habitat, good dog work & pointing/shooting opportunities.
What's in the bag at the end of the day, places fourth behind the aforementioned three.

So I guess I'd frequent a preserve once the season is closed around here. More to work dogs and be with friends than
it would be to go hunting. I'm used to hunting Grouse & Woodcock, no preserve can duplicate that.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Trekmoor » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:24 am

Over the years I have had occasional chances to shoot driven pheasants, partridge and grouse. I didn't enjoy it as much as I did shooting just a few birds over my dogs. I like to feel I have earned the birds I shoot.
Much the same thing applies to me when it comes to shooting over my dogs. I prefer to hunt for and to shoot wild birds than birds released from a pen. The wild birds are usually far more difficult to find and in addition to that I think dogs "learn" more when hunting wild birds, they do not tolerate too many mistakes from the dogs.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by mask » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:00 am

I have never hunted on a preserve and from what I have seen on TV probably never will. To each his own though. The main bird we hunt is chukar. Wild chukar and pen raised chukar do not behave the same and don't even act like the same bird.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by aulrich » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:52 am

A question I have for folks with more experience, is a wild opening day young of the year bird any smarter than a pen raised bird, the experience I have is a mix of release birds which most have little survival instinct and late season Iowa birds which seem to have a plethora of survival instinct.

It's safe to say that weather hammered this years chicks, so I suspect if I want some bird shot over my youngster it will mostly be preserve birds.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by markj » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:26 pm

We grew upp hunting we lived on a farm. Never thought of raiseing birds to release. Just wasnt done like it is today. But just down the road is a preserve, we used to hunt it in the 60s when it was just grandpas place ofa friend lived there. Always was birds there, he just took it a step further.

There is a diff and if a person cant tell, well who am I to ruin it for them :) go hunt them birds, but it isnt like what we do or what we did in the past. It is soon to be the only hunting around here besides public land. Folks just are not letting otehrs use their land like we saw years ago. Used to be go knock on teh door, old farmer would tell us where he saw birds etc. Go hunt, bring a few birds to farmer, if he let us repeat hunt we got him a gift cert at the local feed em up in town. Now the door gets shut in my face, even the kids of the farmers I used to know.

One ol guy couldnt walk, his family left him alone all the time, I would stop by with lunch, we chatted, he let me hunt his farm. One day, he didnt answer the door... I miss him. Cant hunt there tho, his kids say no.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Ruffshooter » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:35 pm

For me:
There are no pen raised Ruffed Grouse.
The wild birds are in the wild, away from most civilization, at least where I go.
I like not knowing what the end of the day will bring.
I like a great dog work and test itself on wild birds, learing on their own how much they can pressure the bird.
I like a young dog learning that clean scent of a wild bird.
I like the smell of a wild bird over a pen raised bird.
I like the taste of a truly wild bird over a pen raised bird.
I like telling stories of how hard the shooting was, the great shot made, the great point of my dog that froze mid air as it winded the ruff on the other side of a blow down.

It is better to be in the wild with the unknowns than to be in a can with Sir Walter Raliegh.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by S&J gsp » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:47 pm

Image
smoke on pen raised chucker


Image
smoke pigeon in launcher

there are two in my avatar he is on a covey of quail

To me it really don't matter much a day in the field with the dog beats any day at work. I try to keep him level that way when he is soft on point I know the bird moved.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by bwire » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:29 pm

I'm in the same boat as will kelly in PA. Stocked birds from the PGC is my best option followed by some woodcock when the flight is right. Things may be a little better this year since the PGC extended the season in rooster only areas. I go after some grouse but living in southern Adams county means driving 2-3 hours one way just to get into areas that have decent grouse numbers. That is hard to do often with young kids and no Sunday hunting. With a preserve I have chance to get on some birds and I prefer to chase holdover birds when I go. And like others have said, the dogs don't care. They really like the preserve owner and act like addicts waiting for their fix when she's around.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by JonahG » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:57 pm

Fact: Most gamebirds hunted today are in fact, Pen raised released birds.

The Dakotas release birds. Same with the South and quail. Released, As in millions or birds as it supports the only real economy, at least before Oil was found there recently.
That they turn feral or semi wild is a reality.

Sharptails, Western Chukars, desert quail and ruffed grouse are not in any way pen raised as a general rule.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Donnytpburge » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:21 pm

I guide at a planatation to justify the expense of having the dogs, however I have the dogs
to be able to hunt wild quail.


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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by cjhills » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:43 pm

Most of the pheasants you hunt at lodges in SD are hatched in mn. and migrate to SD via semi. All birds are dumb they either sit and let you shoot them or fly away. in a lot of ways wild are easier because you know how they will react. The dogs don't care a bird is a bird..........................................Cj

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Winchey » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:15 pm

Because it is a true test of a bird dog. Any dog can go point a few put and take birds, it takes a good dog and experience to master a lot of wild bird species.

I am not sure if your show changed any as I haven't watched it in a few years, but I got tired of watching dogs yoyo between a corn row and point right on top of pen raised birds. For a show that is supposed "honour bird dogs" I didn't see many on your show.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by birddogger » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:18 pm

cjhills wrote:Most of the pheasants you hunt at lodges in SD are hatched in mn. and migrate to SD via semi. All birds are dumb they either sit and let you shoot them or fly away. in a lot of ways wild are easier because you know how they will react. The dogs don't care a bird is a bird..........................................Cj
I agree but got slammed when I posted this a year or two ago. I prefer hunting wild birds but my dogs couldn't care less and I have never seen any difference in their style and intensity between wild and pen raised. This has just been my and my hunting buddy's experience. For those of you who have had a different experience, I respect and can't/won't debate it. I know that the quality of pen raised birds can vary and am only speaking from my own experience.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by big_fish » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:03 pm

here in eastern ohio my only shot at wild birds would be the woodcock flight which may or maynot be good from year to year. we hunt a lot of released birds on our club and hit a few preserves when we can as for state released birds the area we went to had 277 birds released through out the year and 2077 hunters there opening day so we just went home it wasn't worth getting shot. I was told to go a few days after and the crowd would die down a bit. As a child we hunted a lot of grouse but they just aren't here anymoreand to go out of state Im looking at a 5 hr drive to the grouse wood along with an out of state lic I have young children and a busy work schedule so for now its not an option.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Winchey » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:08 pm

birddogger wrote:
cjhills wrote:Most of the pheasants you hunt at lodges in SD are hatched in mn. and migrate to SD via semi. All birds are dumb they either sit and let you shoot them or fly away. in a lot of ways wild are easier because you know how they will react. The dogs don't care a bird is a bird..........................................Cj
I agree but got slammed when I posted this a year or two ago. I prefer hunting wild birds but my dogs couldn't care less and I have never seen any difference in their style and intensity between wild and pen raised. This has just been my and my hunting buddy's experience. For those of you who have had a different experience, I respect and can't/won't debate it. I know that the quality of pen raised birds can vary and am only speaking from my own experience.

Charlie
I am not sure I see your point? This isn't a what does your dog prefer thread. If it were you would probably be the one groaning the loudest about how dogs ruling peoples lives have gotten so out of hand lol.

If I was just trying to make my dogs happy for one of them I would just plant crappy quail and chucker and let him catch and eat them all. He would rather that then wild bird hunting any day.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by windswept » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:20 pm

I live and hunt birds in South Dakota. During the regular season I hunt wild birds on a farm I own. The preserves are allowed to open earlier in the year and stay open into March. I take advantage of this nearly every year and it's been my experience that the early season wild birds are comparable to most of the pen raised birds. Late in the regular season it's a completely different story! Nothing like a rooster that has been shot at a few times!

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:56 pm

If I was just trying to make my dogs happy for one of them I would just plant crappy quail and chucker and let him catch and eat them all. He would rather that then wild bird hunting any day.
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Time for a better dog. Mine aren't the best in the world but they sure are better than that. Mine retrieve a dead bird and have never tried to eat one.

Ezzy

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Winchey » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:06 pm

Lol, he is nothing special that is for sure. He never was a bird eater though, he always brang them back. I still think he would rather try and catch birds then point them though if he had it his way. I was pretty close to docking his tail and convincing my self he was a springer spaniel lol.

Just making a point.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by birddogger » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:13 pm

You are correct Winchey, you don't get my point, as very few seem to when I post something like this. For one thing, I am not talking about "crappy quail" or any other "crappy" game bird. I don't disagree with you at all about the experience of hunting wild vs. pen raised. I was simply agreeing with what another poster said about his dogs. I already said that I would not and could not debate the experience of others. :D

Charlie

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Winchey » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:31 pm

I didn't say you prefer crappy flying quail.

I asked what does a dogs preference have to do with the thread? The question was why do we Lionize wild birds. Now unless the OP is a dog and holds the opinion that dogs lionize wild birds then your post is not revelant.

I don't base my hunt on what my dog prefers to hunt on any particular day.

If you are saying pen raised pheasants are as good as wild then you are right, I missed your point and I can't argue. I have only hunted the former and they sucked, maybe wild pheasant sucks too, or maybe some pre released pheasants are as good as wild, I wouldn't know.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by cjhills » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:09 pm

birddogger wrote:
cjhills wrote:Most of the pheasants you hunt at lodges in SD are hatched in mn. and migrate to SD via semi. All birds are dumb they either sit and let you shoot them or fly away. in a lot of ways wild are easier because you know how they will react. The dogs don't care a bird is a bird..........................................Cj
I agree but got slammed when I posted this a year or two ago. I prefer hunting wild birds but my dogs couldn't care less and I have never seen any difference in their style and intensity between wild and pen raised. This has just been my and my hunting buddy's experience. For those of you who have had a different experience, I respect and can't/won't debate it. I know that the quality of pen raised birds can vary and am only speaking from my own experience.

Charlie
Let them slam away.
everybody prefers wild. but it may be more about the country and the hunt than the difference in the birds. we don't find the December birds harder to hunt, in fact do much better pheasant hunting when the cattail swamps are frozen and there is a bit of snow. except for the very young birds late birds old better. They take a little bigger shot but they are not smarter. Really like wild Huns and Sharptails but for many people they are impossible........................Cj

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Neil » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:05 pm

According to Texas A&M wild quail fly 25% to 50% faster than pen birds, even those that were realeased weeks/months earlier. It even held true for F-1's. I have found pen raised pheasant not only fly slower, but much lower.

If the NFL players had been 25% slower, I would have been All Pro.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by SetterNut » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:32 pm

If you don't live somewhere where you can get your dog into wild birds, you do what you have to do to get your dogs in birds.

But pen raised vs wild birds is like Tee Ball vs the Majors.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Ruffshooter » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:07 am

Neil wrote:According to Texas A&M wild quail fly 25% to 50% faster than pen birds, even those that were realeased weeks/months earlier. It even held true for F-1's. I have found pen raised pheasant not only fly slower, but much lower.

If the NFL players had been 25% slower, I would have been All Pro.
This I can support here in Maine. I had at he end of training season. The quail that I did not shoot for training purposes or just my bad shooting, left them alive. Many got eaten by preditors of different types, but maybe 25 to 30% would make it to late fall. Those birds would covey up and live down near the pines and in the wind rows.. Those birds were wicked spooky and wicked fast flyers. Many times they would bust out as a covey or spit covey. It was fun hunting them to put the final polish on the dogs.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by S&J gsp » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:21 am

Both have a place for me. I like wild birds but it is not about me or the dogs it is about time in the field with family my wife and children like to hunt. So at a preserve I can take everybody and hunt. I hunt a preserve a lot different from a lot of folks I hunt a preserve just like wild birds slow and easy. Put birds out early make two passes through the field and done I've seen folks that want the bird planter to give them a map to the birds and are done in less than an hour. At a few perserves I won't buy quail due to low flying birds if you do some research you'll find good ones.

Now wild birds to me there is nothing better than a 28 degree morning and the first rooster of the day laughing as he gets up at 20 mph and than levels out and hits the after burners and your shot string is about 20 feet behind as he flys off into the sunrise or the first 15 bird covey of quail the gets up like little rockets. Or the first time a young dog gets a little to close to a covey and looks back as if to ask what just happened but then nails the next two like he's done it his whole life. With all of that both have a special place with me because of the experience both provide like I said it ain't about me it is about family and one day I hope to be able to take my grandchildren just like I took my childern

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Grange » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:47 am

Wild birds, especially on public land, are so much more fun and more sporting to hunt than birds at a game farm. The game farm I belong has better birds than the other game farms I've trialed or helped a friend hunt, but it a lot different than hunting wild birds. Not all game farms are the same. One place I hunted I had to put my young setter away because she caught too many birds. We had just got back from a 9 day ruffed grouse hunt and my setter was reliably holding until the flush, but on the first bird at the game farm it walked into her point and she picked it up. By the third bird she wasn't even trying to point. I grabbed my lab and she picked up at least 95% of the rest of the birds because they just sat there when she went into flush. I felt so bad for my friend and and his group because I had to toss the birds in the air for them to shoot. Not surprisingly some could bring themselves to shoot them. The game farm I belong to has much better birds that won't hold long enough to be caught.

Even with better birds though there is still some limiting factors. Game farms are groomed to make it easy to hunt suitable habitat. Most have have rows of suitable habitat and I just run the dogs down the rows. Even when I don't have birds released and hunt only scratch birds it isn't nearly as much of a guessing game as with wild birds. Sure I can and do occasionally find a bird not in a row, but they are in the minority. Game farms also have limited hunting pressure and it's easy to find out how hard a particular area was hunted or how many birds were placed in a particular field. This is a reason I joke with friends that hunt private land that they are hunting on "game farms".

The other and probably the biggest reason why I like wild birds so much is the vast majority of my time hunting is for the King of game birds and as far as I know that is the only option available.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by UglyD » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:57 am

This isn't a what does your dog prefer thread-
But it is- at least that aspect is encompassed . Certainly one of the main reasons I hunt and enjoy wild birds.
I have two PP's= one is 5 and the other 6 months- the damage has been done to the 5 year old and bad habits learned have been worked on. The new pup will never see a pen raised bird or at least not intentionally. I have that option where I live- some do not and I understand but I have that option and will exercise that. Now there is also a difference in 'Preserve" birds and " hunt club " birds. There is a visable difference in my older dogs attitude when he was at a Hunt club and when he is either running CRP fields /cattails trying to pin a running rooster or in the mountains on grouse. There is certainly a visable difference in myself also. No birds taken in the wild with my dogs is a very very enjoyable day.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:44 am

…because a wild anything completes a circle. As we evolve through a variety of human revolutions, agricultural, industrial, etc…, we create dependency and with that comes restrictions. As culture evolves we change and adapt, seemingly always paying for something new with something old. There are so few words to describe; wild women, wild trout and wild birds and I find stringing them in the proper order to be fittingly descriptive near impossible. Maybe, some experiences are like that for a reason.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by UglyD » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:46 am

ahhhhhhhhhh wild women- those were the days

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by birddogger » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:45 am

There are many on here (including myself) who have been around a long time and have hunted and and seen more wild birds than the younger crowd ever have or ever will. It is sad but the hey days of wild birds are gone, at least here in the midwest. So, I have a choice. I can quit doing what I love or I can hunt pen raised birds, enjoy the outing and enjoy the dog work, which is the only reason I do it to begin with. I can also hunt a few wild birds from time to time and travel out of state when I can afford it, and even then, the bird numbers are nothing like I grew up with. So we know how fast they fly and how exciting they are to hunt. This is why wild birds are precious and why we "lionize" them.

Charlie

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Maurice » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:23 pm

birddogger wrote:There are many on here (including myself) who have been around a long time and have hunted and and seen more wild birds than the younger crowd ever have or ever will. It is sad but the hey days of wild birds are gone, at least here in the midwest. So, I have a choice. I can quit doing what I love or I can hunt pen raised birds, enjoy the outing and enjoy the dog work, which is the only reason I do it to begin with. I can also hunt a few wild birds from time to time and travel out of state when I can afford it, and even then, the bird numbers are nothing like I grew up with. So we know how fast they fly and how exciting they are to hunt. This is why wild birds are precious and why we "lionize" them.

Charlie
That's how I feel too. We use to have good wild quail hunting in the upstate of sc, sure enjoyed it and shot by share. I am real content now just to go work dogs, mostly pen birds with a few wild birds. What makes me happy is being out with my dogs.

Mo

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