welsh wrote:Oh, and while we're talkin' spaniels ... I'm getting little sleep this week.
That's a beauty. Enjoy.
welsh wrote:Oh, and while we're talkin' spaniels ... I'm getting little sleep this week.
What a sharp little looker! Where's it from???!welsh wrote:Oh, and while we're talkin' spaniels ... I'm getting little sleep this week.
Sounds like a plan. Hope it works out.Trekmoor wrote: At present I am working on getting distance done in a straight line from him for if he will go 100 yards for memories etc. without checking partway out to begin hunting then it is my hope he will then be more likely to go 30 -60 yards in a straight line when he is eventually sent for a "true blind."
Bill T.
Manitoulin.CDN_Cocker wrote:What a sharp little looker! Where's it from???!
Very good example, Chrokeva. I was introduce to this about 10 yrs ago working Schulzten dogs, Malinois, Shepards, Airedales! Gary has done a fine job with set-ups borrowed from other training venues.chrokeva wrote:I am sure there are many ways to get a spaniel to run a straight line but here are a few videos that Gary Breitbarth did on teaching a spaniel to take a straight line (part two is where he adds cover). I have been working on this with my dog but have not brought it to cover yet.
(part I)
http://www.gundogsonline.com/video/hunt ... part-i.htm
(part II)
http://www.gundogsonline.com/video/hunt ... art-ii.htm
I have also been working my dog on taking a straight line in water by doing something called "channeling" I am sure many of you know that process but this is all new and exciting for me and my dog to learn.
That there is one Golden nuggetchrokeva wrote: At 2 1/2 years old it seems that if you missed any of the foundation training it will come back and bite you. I am truly humbled by how much effort it takes to train and maintain a trial spaniel. Hoping this time around I am able to get it right .
polmaise wrote:That there is one Golden nuggetchrokeva wrote: At 2 1/2 years old it seems that if you missed any of the foundation training it will come back and bite you. I am truly humbled by how much effort it takes to train and maintain a trial spaniel. Hoping this time around I am able to get it right .
Yup ! The thought that I might lose her had occurred to me !polmaise wrote:Let's hope and pray you don't loose this one Bill ..
You Know my sense of humour
Be careful what you wish for.chrokeva wrote:Sounds like quite a handful of a pup Bill! It must be so much fun having a pup around though.
polmaise wrote:I have seen the cones/posts/barrels used before with 'Yard work' when conditioning quartering/pattern. What direction was the wind Chrokeva ?
Often this side of the pond an overlay of 'pip' or 'pip-pip' on the turn is used.
Works wonders when birds are used though , and a couple of good helpers with impeccable timing
The wee dog looks happy with the drill .
But there's little reason they should, as training a dog to quarter a given distance either side of the handler is of little practical use in most real-world hunting situations, where the birds do not conveniently lie between two sets of flags along which gunners walk.gundogguy wrote:A side note, the hunting folks will never buy into the process, they just will not put forth the time and effort needed.
I'd hate to think they're awarding dogs that run mechanical patterns. I have heard people complain of judges doing just that but of course different people will always see things differently, so who's to say?gundogguy wrote:In the Eastern US, judging seems to be favoring dogs that have been condition in this fashion, it kind of like the old saying "when in Rome do like the Romans".
I can only say from this side of the pond .welsh wrote:
I'd hate to think they're awarding dogs that run mechanical patterns. I have heard people complain of judges doing just that but of course different people will always see things differently, so who's to say?
I have seen it done by folks for years. In training and those folks that Hunt Test. By the time some one steps into the trialing venue,for the most part they have learn to walk down the course in a relatively straight line. Maybe not at the correct pace but at least they are not out quartering their dogs down the beat in trial.welsh wrote:Thanks for sharing that. I like this bit:
"Dogs are increasingly being over assisted in this and led from one side of their beat to the other with handlers doing almost as much quartering as their dog."
That's one I've never seen over here but I guess that's the consequence of people training their dogs to work ridiculously close!
Now you have it! It's in the read that makes all the difference.polmaise wrote:
......
In the US ,'Shoe shiners' are not so common ,but then 'Self employment' may be more so.
....
Hunting with a flusher in all terrain in all wind directions would require knowledge of 'reading a dog' for sure.
I should hope so.gundogguy wrote:I have seen it done by folks for years. In training and those folks that Hunt Test. By the time some one steps into the trialing venue,for the most part they have learn to walk down the course in a relatively straight line.
gundogguy wrote: Now you have it! It's in the read that makes all the difference.
"Is This Heaven?'IsThisHeaven? wrote:I have a 1.5 year old springer. We mainly hunt and occasionally test for something to do. I train every day weather permitting. The cone drills (or whatever object) to teach quartering are something I will never use. The reason I will refrain from using the drill has nothing to do with my devotion to training. I devote plenty of time and thought to my training. If I thought it had any use for what I want out of my dog I would use it. It is way too mechanical. I see it as another step in an ever-increasing gap in what I do and what goes on in trials.
gundogguy I don't think that at all. I have been a member of two different spaniel groups. Both groups have been made up mostly of field trialers. I have been to several trials and I carried the bird bag at one. My encounters with field trialers in the training groups have not been good, unfortunately. I keep going to trials because I really enjoy good dogs. I have met several very personable and talented trialers at field trials and I have seen many very impressive dogs.gundogguy wrote:"Is This Heaven?'IsThisHeaven? wrote:I have a 1.5 year old springer. We mainly hunt and occasionally test for something to do. I train every day weather permitting. The cone drills (or whatever object) to teach quartering are something I will never use. The reason I will refrain from using the drill has nothing to do with my devotion to training. I devote plenty of time and thought to my training. If I thought it had any use for what I want out of my dog I would use it. It is way too mechanical. I see it as another step in an ever-increasing gap in what I do and what goes on in trials.
No this is Iowa, great line from a fine movie, Field of Dreams, My brother and I played in the game last Sept on the Ghost team in Dyersville.
I digress
Kudos to you for your relationship building with your Springer. Please do not think that the entire Spaniel field trial community has been taken over by the formulated mechanical training system, far from it. The trial system in this country has been going thru growing paigns since it's inception in 1927. and will continue to do so until it's end. It is just the nature of the beast. However continue to enjoy your moments with your spaniel, they are very fleeting.
Sounds like Self employmentIsThisHeaven? wrote:I want to take advantage of my dog's nose, instincts, and natural ability.
If only we had discussed this earlier I would have saved countless hours and some money....welsh wrote:You've succeeded in clarifying why you don't get along with training groups.
Or you asked the guy standing off to the side, the taciturn guy who somehow never looked happy, what he thought of your dog ... and then swept up all the little pieces of your ego and got back to work.Trekmoor wrote:The Internet and forums weren't even a twinkle in someones eye when I began with gundogs ! You learned ....or didn't learn.....on the job by really looking hard at the way people you wanted to emulate trained/worked their dogs.
Bill, Thank-you! That reads like the beginning of my own journey in learning how to build the proper standards in my self and in my dog, along with many dogs since that humble beginning.Trekmoor wrote:The Internet and forums weren't even a twinkle in someones eye when I began with gundogs ! You learned ....or didn't learn.....on the job by really looking hard at the way people you wanted to emulate trained/worked their dogs.
I'd had a springer and a lab for almost 2 years before I actually saw gundogs other than my own working . Only then did I find out it was possible to stop dogs on a whistle and then send them in a direction decided by me instead of by them ! It was a "Eureka" moment for me and I began to actually train my dogs rather than just take them shooting.
Learning to field trial successfully was a bit different from now too. I ran my rough shooting lab that I also did a lot of beating with in the first trial I ever entered , that was Trekmoor Tessa and she was really, really good ..........but I was not ! The judge I was with saw me try to handle her on a runner when I should have left her to get on with the job. The old timers back then had a habit of saying what they thought and "political correctness etc." had never been heard of . The judge asked me there and then , please excuse the language ..........." Are you some kind of f-ing idiot !"
I was chucked out of that trial but because I could take a row and then come back for more of the same that judge became my mentor and other old timers went out of their way to help me progress.
I.M.O. some of the more modern would be field trailers are a bit too "precious." They don't seem to accept well meant critiscism.
I get annoyed when I see good advice given on a gundog forum get slapped down because it's recipient did not like the way in which it was phrased.
Giving advice is often a bit difficult on a forum. It sort of looks a bit "wrong" to the recipient so they retaliate.
I don't have enough of a way with words to always put things in a totally acceptable way in response to a question so I could end up on the sharp end of someones offended tongue ! :roll:
Bill T.
Trekmoor wrote:The Internet and forums weren't even a twinkle in someones eye when I began with gundogs ! You learned ....or didn't learn.....on the job by really looking hard at the way people you wanted to emulate trained/worked their dogs.
I'd had a springer and a lab for almost 2 years before I actually saw gundogs other than my own working . Only then did I find out it was possible to stop dogs on a whistle and then send them in a direction decided by me instead of by them ! It was a "Eureka" moment for me and I began to actually train my dogs rather than just take them shooting.
Learning to field trial successfully was a bit different from now too. I ran my rough shooting lab that I also did a lot of beating with in the first trial I ever entered , that was Trekmoor Tessa and she was really, really good ..........but I was not ! The judge I was with saw me try to handle her on a runner when I should have left her to get on with the job. The old timers back then had a habit of saying what they thought and "political correctness etc." had never been heard of . The judge asked me there and then , please excuse the language ..........." Are you some kind of f-ing idiot !"
I was chucked out of that trial but because I could take a row and then come back for more of the same that judge became my mentor and other old timers went out of their way to help me progress.
I.M.O. some of the more modern would be field trailers are a bit too "precious." They don't seem to accept well meant critiscism.
I get annoyed when I see good advice given on a gundog forum get slapped down because it's recipient did not like the way in which it was phrased.
Giving advice is often a bit difficult on a forum. It sort of looks a bit "wrong" to the recipient so they retaliate.
I don't have enough of a way with words to always put things in a totally acceptable way in response to a question so I could end up on the sharp end of someones offended tongue ! :roll:
Bill T.