pup biting

BuckeyeSteve · Post by **BuckeyeSteve** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:19 pm

I just read a pretty feisty thread on breaking puppy's from biting. Neil and GSP were going back and forth (with some others chiming in) on "punishing" a pup for biting. There were multiple people saying squeeze a lip onto the pups tooth, pinch it's snout, smack it's nose, pin it down upside down, etc... and a couple others (primarily Neil) saying it is ridiculous to correct a 10 week old pup for anything. Be nothing but positive or you'll ruin the dog for down the road (and essentially that you're an a-hole for smacking a little puppy).
My pups doing good 80% of the time, but when he gets hyper he gets bitey. I've been sqeezing snout and smacking nose, then immediately following with a replacement chewey. I hate being "mean" to the pup....he is just a pup and can't control himself... but I have two small kids (4&6) in the house and he'll occasional jump at their faces to nip (just playing...but can still hurt them). I need to break this fairly quickly, but definitely don't want to be an a-hole to my dog. Any highly experienced thoughts on this?

Also...it's a chewing machine. He's found out that he can pull the carpet up from the carpet tack and rip it apart. If I wasn't on top of the dog for even a few minutes at some point, I'll be spending thousands of dollars in new carpet, which I'd certainly like to avoid. I got Bitter Yuck! spray, which I tested myself and can say FOR SURE is super bitter and terrible, sprayed that all over the carpet edges, and it didn't even phase him. I'm still tasting the stuff when I lick my lips 5 hours later. When I caught him chewing up the carpet after I had sprayed it, I sprayed it on the carpet again with his nose right there to be sure it got on his lips. He didn't even act like he could taste it. Totally unphased and happy as can be.

I think Rosco is going to be a great dog...and I don't want to break his spirit at all... but I need some ideas.

Mike da Carpenter · Post by **Mike da Carpenter** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:35 pm

HA!! Sounds just like my GSP, Levi. He turned 13weeks today, and I can honestly say that as long as you stay consistent with discouraging the behavior, it gets MUCH easier. Went through the same process with my Chocolate Lab years ago.

We too did the
Yuck” spray, and the only thing it achieved was to get my boys to brush their teeth for 25 minutes when they got a “Kiss” from Levi after he was done chewing on whatever I had sprayed it on.

Just remember we, they do grow out of it. Some days you will wonder if that will EVER happen, but don’t get discouraged, and stay the course.

isonychia · Post by **isonychia** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:39 pm

Welcome to your gun dog puppy! Kinda like a tasmanian devil. Some liken it to the firey deeps. I for one can't wait to do it again!

The biting...
There is no quick stop to this, it is a phase the dog will have to outgrow. Pups that spend more than 8 weeks with the litter mates tend not to be as bity because they learn from each other. They learn by way of 'all fun and games until someone gets hurt' when it gets too intense the victim pup will yelp loudly and quit playing. The pups learn that play time is too fun to ruin with a bite. Do not let your children get their face too close with the pups face, the pup needs to learn that the human face is off limits as is jumping up on children. If he cant get to their face, he cant bite it.

The carpet...
Gun dog pups are high energy adult dogs, this makes them ferocious puppies. Basically, if you can't watch his every move, put him in his kennel, period. The only thing my last pup damaged was a pair of sandals when my girlfriend at the time decided the pup could be trusted :roll:

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:24 pm

Here's something that may help you I did for my daughter and grand daughter's.

GRAMPS BASIC DOG TRAINING RULES

1) NEVER GIVE A COMMAND YOU CAN’T ENFORCE.
For instance, if you can’t catch the dog, don’t say HERE. If you command and don’t enforce, the dog learns it only has to obey when IT wants.

2) USE A RELEASE FOR EVERY COMMAND.
For instance, when you say SIT, don’t just walk away, leave the dog sitting, then let her get up and leave on her own. A dog never does anything without a command. If you tell her to sit, she should sit until commanded to do something else or released with the command OK.

3) ONE WORD COMMANDS ONLY!
Don’t have a conversation with the dog. If she’s in the garbage, don’t say “hey you, get out of there. NO! One word NO. Want her to sit? One word SIT!. Not, “hey you, get over here and sit”. Dog’s understand single word’s, not phrases.

4) BASIC COMMANDS EVERY DOG SHOULD KNOW:
HERE. SIT. DOWN. HEEL. NO. KENNEL.
Those are the only six commands you need for any well trained pet.

5) YOU CATCH MORE FLIES WITH HONEY THAN VINEGAR.
A young dog trains faster with positive reinforcement, that is treats and praise. They need SOME negative (slap on butt) to know they HAVE to obey, treats or not.

6) NO BITING!
There are NO exceptions to this! Even in play a pup is NEVER ALLOWED TO BITE! A playful nip now may result in stitches to the face later. THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS RULE! To stop biting, slap the pup’s nose and say NO! or pinch the gums against the upper teeth and say NO! or, bite him back. That’s what the mother would do.

7) IF YOU CAN’T WATCH THE DOG, KENNEL IT.
Never leave the dog roaming unattended.

TWO SHORT 10 MINUTE SESSION A DAY GET’S FASTER RESULTS THAN ONE 20 MINUTE.
Try to never bore the pup. Keep it short and interesting.

9) BE CONSISTENT!
Use the same commands each time. Command the dog ONCE then correct if the command isn’t followed. Don’t tell the dog to “sit”, if it doesn’t, slap it’s butt and yell “sit!”, then let it walk away the next time.

10) PATIENCE!
Teach, teach, teach. When the dog doesn’t follow a command it is probably a lack of education on your part, not defiance on the dog’s.

11) NEVER YELL AT A DOG.
Command the dog in an even voice or you will panic and confuse the dog.

12) NEVER STRIKE A DOG IN ANGER.
You can undo a month of training in a fit of anger. All corrections should be thought out, precise and measured.

That’s it. Very easy but very hard to do. Consistency results in great dog’s.

isonychia · Post by **isonychia** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:14 pm

Gonehuntin can I print that out an distribute it to my friends.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:48 pm

isonychia wrote:Gonehuntin can I print that out an distribute it to my friends.

Absolutely!!

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:29 am

I've only ever had one pup biting like that, never did break him of it. But he did outgrow it and now he'll lick the skin right off you! When Stormy was a pup, the people I play cards with Wed night's were always amazed at how chewed up my fore arms were, it was pretty ugly. Discipline be da*ned, he still chewed on me. Funny thing thought, he didn't see my grand kids a lot and never chewed on them! He's pretty strong minded!

BuckeyeSteve · Post by **BuckeyeSteve** » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:28 pm

Thanks! I did print that, so my wife and I can be on the same page. I doubt seriously my kids can keep from inadvertently working against us on nearly every piece of that...but hopefully the dog still learns from our consistency on those things.

Great reply, much appreciated.

TurkeyDog · Post by **TurkeyDog** » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:24 pm

I'm new to this forum and the game of dog training. My pup bit with a bit too much gusto, and I corrected it by using a coyote mouth call. When he got too aggressive, I did a pup distress whimper on the mouth call. If you hunt yotes, and are decent on a mouth call, it may worth a shot. Worked for me.

isonychia · Post by **isonychia** » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:23 pm

TurkeyDog wrote:I'm new to this forum and the game of dog training. My pup bit with a bit too much gusto, and I corrected it by using a coyote mouth call. When he got too aggressive, I did a pup distress whimper on the mouth call. If you hunt yotes, and are decent on a mouth call, it may worth a shot. Worked for me.

Super interesting. Normally we discourage the use of loud noises for negative feedback training on bird dogs (shaking a can of coins), but this seams like a plausible way to communicate on the pups level.

Sask hunter · Post by **Sask hunter** » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:27 pm

Gonehuntinh good advice!

Sask hunter · Post by **Sask hunter** » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:28 pm

TurkeyDog wrote:I'm new to this forum and the game of dog training. My pup bit with a bit too much gusto, and I corrected it by using a coyote mouth call. When he got too aggressive, I did a pup distress whimper on the mouth call. If you hunt yotes, and are decent on a mouth call, it may worth a shot. Worked for me.

That's interesting but it makes sense

csmarkle · Post by **csmarkle** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:41 am

The degree to which you correct will depend on the breed. Some can take a strong hand, others, not so much. In lieu of striking, I will redirect his/hers attention to a positive activity. If that fails, straight to timeout.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:14 pm

When all else fails, grab his nose, hold it shut, bite it and tell him NO!!. One of the MOST powerful corrections and one of the MOST effective.

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:55 pm

Sask hunter wrote:
TurkeyDog wrote:I'm new to this forum and the game of dog training. My pup bit with a bit too much gusto, and I corrected it by using a coyote mouth call. When he got too aggressive, I did a pup distress whimper on the mouth call. If you hunt yotes, and are decent on a mouth call, it may worth a shot. Worked for me.
That's interesting but it makes sense

I'm not sure how that makes sense. I have watched many litters of pups grow up and when one of them is too rough with another it will elicit a puppy distress from the victim - but that really does little to deter a repeat behavior from the offender. And in the case of dogs biting people repeat behaviors are of great concern.

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:01 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:When all else fails, grab his nose, hold it shut, bite it and tell him NO!!. One of the MOST powerful corrections and one of the MOST effective.

Or if you just start there and then you won't have to waste time and effort finding out that all else fails because the lesson will already be done and over with.

Pups generally do not get "too rough" with momma in the rearing pen more than once. She doesn't scold them, time out them, distract them, etc. etc. She corrects them in a manner that leaves no doubt in their mind that they do not want a repeat behavior.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:57 am

slistoe wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:When all else fails, grab his nose, hold it shut, bite it and tell him NO!!. One of the MOST powerful corrections and one of the MOST effective.
Or if you just start there and then you won't have to waste time and effort finding out that all else fails because the lesson will already be done and over with.

Pups generally do not get "too rough" with momma in the rearing pen more than once. She doesn't scold them, time out them, distract them, etc. etc. She corrects them in a manner that leaves no doubt in their mind that they do not want a repeat behavior.

Amen

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:05 pm

Well said. If anyone wants practice with curtailing this behaviour, get a Jack Russell Terrier. Nothing "gentle " is going to work for about 4 years.

( This is why many end up in rescue centres- owners couldn't be tough enough.)

JONOV · Post by **JONOV** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:14 pm

Puppy biting isn't the same as aggression.

The whole "no-bite" thing while closing their mouth, or the gums over the teeth, have been done forever and don't ruin dogs. It isn't rocket science, no more than teaching a dog to sit for a treat. Frankly, if your dog is damaged by the "no bite" and jaw clamp then the dog is probably too fragile mentally to handle much training of any sort.

Biting the dog and pinning it down is probably good advice for a dog testing limits or trying to establish itself as the top dawg. But, most puppies just seem to want to play and don't know what's ok and what's not. My dog used to stalk, and pounce at feet. It wasn't an aggressive behavior. It was a baby playing. He grew out of it.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:49 pm

BuckeyeSteve wrote:I just read a pretty feisty thread on breaking puppy's from biting. Neil and GSP were going back and forth (with some others chiming in) on "punishing" a pup for biting. There were multiple people saying squeeze a lip onto the pups tooth, pinch it's snout, smack it's nose, pin it down upside down, etc... and a couple others (primarily Neil) saying it is ridiculous to correct a 10 week old pup for anything. Be nothing but positive or you'll ruin the dog for down the road (and essentially that you're an a-hole for smacking a little puppy).
My pups doing good 80% of the time, but when he gets hyper he gets bitey. I've been sqeezing snout and smacking nose, then immediately following with a replacement chewey. I hate being "mean" to the pup....he is just a pup and can't control himself... but I have two small kids (4&6) in the house and he'll occasional jump at their faces to nip (just playing...but can still hurt them). I need to break this fairly quickly, but definitely don't want to be an a-hole to my dog. Any highly experienced thoughts on this?

Also...it's a chewing machine. He's found out that he can pull the carpet up from the carpet tack and rip it apart. If I wasn't on top of the dog for even a few minutes at some point, I'll be spending thousands of dollars in new carpet, which I'd certainly like to avoid. I got Bitter Yuck! spray, which I tested myself and can say FOR SURE is super bitter and terrible, sprayed that all over the carpet edges, and it didn't even phase him. I'm still tasting the stuff when I lick my lips 5 hours later. When I caught him chewing up the carpet after I had sprayed it, I sprayed it on the carpet again with his nose right there to be sure it got on his lips. He didn't even act like he could taste it. Totally unphased and happy as can be.
I think Rosco is going to be a great dog...and I don't want to break his spirit at all... but I need some ideas.

It can be daunting and confusing reading all sorts on the subject .
In the first instance consider this ...........? It's a puppy and the only thing it can explore or investigate or learn with is it's mouth (much like a human baby) who puts everything in it's mouth. heck ,when I was 5 I was eating muck and tasting worms ,just so I could . lol
If the carpet tack is more important than You at the time the pup is ripping it up ,then find something that you want the pup to rip up ..it's most probably teething , so a raw carrot should do the trick ...if not ..? hey play with the wee dog !
As for biting ?, well ..that has many , many levels ..and one mans bite is another pups play ?..That you can't get on the internet .
The lion tamer, however puts his head in the Lion's mouth , knowing that it can't lock it's jaws down when they are open.
Put your full fist in a pups mouth when it bites too hard , caveat to that is ....Not when it doesn't bite too hard ? ..confused ..yea ..well what's hard and what's not ? what's play and what's not ? ..
Smacking and or snout squashing and or teeth quenching also gets a result for the immediate behaviour . as the advice from earlier. It does however has it's own caveat depending on the individual dog , individual owner and how often it is applied and when .
Good luck . Either way ..They were all born perfect ,just from 8 weeks humans take over .

Featherfinder · Post by **Featherfinder** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:58 am

Do NOT smack the dog's nose or hold his jaw shut! Talk about pouring fuel on the fire.....!?!?!

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:39 am

Featherfinder wrote:Do NOT smack the dog's nose or hold his jaw shut! Talk about pouring fuel on the fire.....!?!?!

That's rediculous. Slapping the nose has cured countless pups though I do prefer the jowl pinch.

JJWISE · Post by **JJWISE** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:34 am

Our Boykin turns a year old in a few weeks, and he also ripped up some carpet last month. Nothing stops him from chewing either, except Tabasco sauce on whatever he’s wanting to chew. But he’s smart and doesn’t mind it once it’s dried. I will say though he’s come along way. Yes as a hunting dog, but he used to also be very bitey which has mostly stopped and he’s not *quite* as destructive as he used to be.

Warrior372 · Post by **Warrior372** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:57 am

I had a dog trainer with my first dog that addressed this issue. He said a lot of puppies bite as a result of being pulled from their litters at 8-weeks. A lot of bite inhibition is naturally taught to puppies by other puppies in their litter biting them. They learn pretty quickly that when another puppy bites them with their needle-like teeth that it hurts pretty bad and as a result they eventually stop doing it. He suggested that when a puppy bites you that you should "bite back". Now most people would not literally bite their puppies, so he suggested making a "claw" with your hand and "biting" them back with your hand so they yelp - and at the same time sternly saying "No Biting". You are obviously not trying to overtly hurt or injure the dog, but rather trying to get them to realize that type of behavior hurts! It worked really well and both of my dogs responded to that technique really quickly. The younger dog was quite a firestorm as a puppy too, so if it worked on him I am convinced it can work on pretty much any dog.

shags · Post by **shags** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:19 am

^^^ Has worked well for me, too. A quick poke with the 'claw' or goose-beak looking hand, along with "Hey!" I find that "Hey!" works great because the pups associate it with stopping what they're doing and it transfers over to other unwanted activities.

I don't believe that it makes pups feel sorry because now they know how it feels to be chewed on and they don't want to hurt someone. I think it works because they get a good correction for misbehavior just like MamaDog would give them. So it needs to be done quickly and sternly, not in weak little nags.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:48 pm

When you bring home a new puppy he will try to establish his position in the pack. A loud reprimand and a little punishment will stop him. the problem comes with small children who can not stop him. a puppy's teeth hurt make sure he knows it is not a game. Punishment in the dog world is swift, sure and over. how you do it makes very little difference just do it......................Cj

Featherfinder · Post by **Featherfinder** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:41 am

Gonehuntin', if I disagree with someone, I don't call them ridiculous - even if I think it. Please try to respond more appropriately.
In my experience, depending on the breeding, fabric, age of pup, or more importantly what the owners have already tried and failed at, a slap on the nose, holding their jaw, etc. can INFURIATE some pups. (Prefer not to slap pups/dogs anyway but that's me.) This in turn takes the nipping to elevated frustration, possibly even a bite! Simply put, it could migrate into a new greater concern, especially if there are children involved.
Warrior and Shags do what I do (sort of). Done properly, it stops the act in it's tracks and is effective in how they subsequently treat adults and children alike. The ornery dog I described above might try you again later on. I may have to repeat and voila...done...over....no more nipping! A REALLY nasty pup might need a 3rd application, before nipping is no more.
Now....Jack Russells are DIFFERENT, for sure Sharon!!!

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:49 am

Featherfinder wrote:Gonehuntin', if I disagree with someone, I don't call them ridiculous - even if I think it. Please try to respond more appropriately.
In my experience, depending on the breeding, fabric, age of pup, or more importantly what the owners have already tried and failed at, a slap on the nose, holding their jaw, etc. can INFURIATE some pups. (Prefer not to slap pups/dogs anyway but that's me.) This in turn takes the nipping to elevated frustration, possibly even a bite! Simply put, it could migrate into a new greater concern, especially if there are children involved.
Warrior and Shags do what I do (sort of). Done properly, it stops the act in it's tracks and is effective in how they subsequently treat adults and children alike. The ornery dog I described above might try you again later on. I may have to repeat and voila...done...over....no more nipping! A REALLY nasty pup might need a 3rd application, before nipping is no more.
Now....Jack Russells are DIFFERENT, for sure Sharon!!!

I never had a Jack Russell nor the inclination to have one. I bet Jack Russell puppies do not attack their mothers more than once or twice.
You need to see how discipline works in the dog world and apply the same approach
I have 11 puppies right now who are 7 weeks I can sit in the kennel and play with them. They will not bite me. they have been taught by their mother and me where their
place is in the pack. The problem comes when they go to homes with smaller children and are allowed to play rough games. They will dominate the kid and it becomes a issue that must be stopped or it escalates. Some of the more aggressive breeds become dangerous dogs. Then they have to be brought to people like me, who will do what it takes to stop it. There are very few naturally vicious dogs. Most are made that way by owners who do not know how to stop the puppy from dominating them or even see the signs of domination. Stop it now when the dog is a puppy......................Cj

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:26 pm

Featherfinder wrote:Gonehuntin', if I disagree with someone, I don't call them ridiculous - even if I think it. Please try to respond more appropriately.
In my experience, depending on the breeding, fabric, age of pup, or more importantly what the owners have already tried and failed at, a slap on the nose, holding their jaw, etc. can INFURIATE some pups. (Prefer not to slap pups/dogs anyway but that's me.) This in turn takes the nipping to elevated frustration, possibly even a bite! Simply put, it could migrate into a new greater concern, especially if there are children involved.
Warrior and Shags do what I do (sort of). Done properly, it stops the act in it's tracks and is effective in how they subsequently treat adults and children alike. The ornery dog I described above might try you again later on. I may have to repeat and voila...done...over....no more nipping! A REALLY nasty pup might need a 3rd application, before nipping is no more.
Now....Jack Russells are DIFFERENT, for sure Sharon!!!

You are not ridiculous but your response is. Like others on here I've trained hundred's of dog's and a slap on a pup's nose or a strong pinch of the jowls on his canine's never hurt any pup nor did it ever cause a problem. If it caused a problem it's because it wasn't done hard enough.

Post by **slistoe** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:21 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Featherfinder wrote:Gonehuntin', if I disagree with someone, I don't call them ridiculous - even if I think it. Please try to respond more appropriately.
In my experience, depending on the breeding, fabric, age of pup, or more importantly what the owners have already tried and failed at, a slap on the nose, holding their jaw, etc. can INFURIATE some pups. (Prefer not to slap pups/dogs anyway but that's me.) This in turn takes the nipping to elevated frustration, possibly even a bite! Simply put, it could migrate into a new greater concern, especially if there are children involved.
Warrior and Shags do what I do (sort of). Done properly, it stops the act in it's tracks and is effective in how they subsequently treat adults and children alike. The ornery dog I described above might try you again later on. I may have to repeat and voila...done...over....no more nipping! A REALLY nasty pup might need a 3rd application, before nipping is no more.
Now....Jack Russells are DIFFERENT, for sure Sharon!!!
You are not ridiculous but your response is. Like others on here I've trained hundred's of dog's and a slap on a pup's nose or a strong pinch of the jowls on his canine's never hurt any pup nor did it ever cause a problem. If it caused a problem it's because it wasn't done hard enough.

And there's the deal. If you want to use a "claw finger" go right ahead, just make sure you get the point across with it and all will be good. I have also never found any purpose in experimenting with escalating levels of punishment either - simply prolongs the problem and creates a greater potential for prolonged and future issues. Make your point and be done with it - by whatever means you feel you would like to make the point. I generally use a rap with the side of my second finger knuckle across the top of the nose. I will repeat a second time if I have to. There generally won't be a third repeat - if a third incident happens then a firm grasp around the muzzle holding it shut and controlling the dog. It will struggle to get away. After I have held for long enough, I hold for longer. I do not recall ever having to repeat such. Now this has even worked on older pups that the owners simply did not have the wherewithal to stop the behavior in the dog and it had become are rather strong habit.
I really am at a loss to see what problems featherfinder envisions from this approach, as I have not found any.

Featherfinder · Post by **Featherfinder** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:35 am

I have had some people come to me after trying to slap, clip, or hold the muzzle shut. Some had the scars to prove it. Those pups won the battle(s). So, you could blame the owners for improper application, I suppose.
Slap a strong minded pup and he may come right back at you. I'm guessing you could grab him and give it to him good the next time.
Just not my style. That's all I'm saying.

shags · Post by **shags** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:56 am

Any little 8 or 10 week old pup that comes back to bite* me will live to regret it. He will get a sure and certain correction that will leave no doubt in his mind who is the Queen Beotch around here. I'm not mean or cruel about it, but one good swift correction saves trouble later.

In fact, when we bring puppies home they get a few days to settle in, then I start doing things to tempt them to use their teeth to object...I claim their toys or food, "examine" their feet and ears, and be annoying once or twice a day. If they use teeth, they get corrected, and I very rarely have any dog that showed teeth much less used teeth on people skin. They are allowed to not like certain things, but they must tolerate them.

Now, if someone is talking about a pup of 8-15 months or so, practically a grown dog that has poor manners, then a chuck under the chin or a smack on the nose may not be the best correction.

* "bite" here means retaliation for something he doesn't like, not the chewing play type biting that puppies do.

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:46 am

Featherfinder wrote:I have had some people come to me after trying to slap, clip, or hold the muzzle shut. Some had the scars to prove it. Those pups won the battle(s). So, you could blame the owners for improper application, I suppose.
Slap a strong minded pup and he may come right back at you. I'm guessing you could grab him and give it to him good the next time.
Just not my style. That's all I'm saying.

What breed of dogs where these that an 8-12 week old pup is causing serious physical harm?

Featherfinder · Post by **Featherfinder** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:32 pm

Slistoe, this was in my earlier post and I quote: "In my experience, depending on the breeding, fabric, age of pup, or more importantly what the owners have already tried and failed at...." More-often-than-not, it is a reflection of their home environment rather than the breed/breeding.
OK...it's 8-12 weeks old. Slap away. Just sayin'....not the way I would do it. Actually, I can't think of a good reason to slap a pup or dog?
Do I accept inappropriate behavior or ornery abuse from pup/dog? Not for 1 second.

Kovan · Post by **Kovan** » Thu May 17, 2018 9:07 am

I cannot tell you how frustrated I am with my 9 weeks old chocolate lab biting everything and everyone. All I can say is I am trying to be as patient as I can be with him. I am a new dog owner and I am new to this website hoping to find help on here. I have tried to clinch his mouth when he bites and say NO BITING!. I have tried grabbing him on the back of his neck and say NO BITING!. I have tried leaving him in a time out area (basement) and................the results are the same...he comes back and bite and bite again. I have read up on so many ways of method to teach them not to bite well....he still bites.

All I can do is, have the imagination of him as a adult lab, out hunting fetching my ducks for me and say BE PATIENT. I hope I have the right mind set.....

Post by **Sharon** » Thu May 17, 2018 5:25 pm

Don't miss this :

"GRAMPS BASIC DOG TRAINING RULES

1) NEVER GIVE A COMMAND YOU CAN’T ENFORCE.
For instance, if you can’t catch the dog, don’t say HERE. If you command and don’t enforce, the dog learns it only has to obey when IT wants.

2) USE A RELEASE FOR EVERY COMMAND.
For instance, when you say SIT, don’t just walk away, leave the dog sitting, then let her get up and leave on her own. A dog never does anything without a command. If you tell her to sit, she should sit until commanded to do something else or released with the command OK.

3) ONE WORD COMMANDS ONLY!
Don’t have a conversation with the dog. If she’s in the garbage, don’t say “hey you, get out of there. NO! One word NO. Want her to sit? One word SIT!. Not, “hey you, get over here and sit”. Dog’s understand single word’s, not phrases.

4) BASIC COMMANDS EVERY DOG SHOULD KNOW:
HERE. SIT. DOWN. HEEL. NO. KENNEL.
Those are the only six commands you need for any well trained pet.

5) YOU CATCH MORE FLIES WITH HONEY THAN VINEGAR.
A young dog trains faster with positive reinforcement, that is treats and praise. They need SOME negative (slap on butt) to know they HAVE to obey, treats or not.

6) NO BITING!
There are NO exceptions to this! Even in play a pup is NEVER ALLOWED TO BITE! A playful nip now may result in stitches to the face later. THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS RULE! To stop biting, slap the pup’s nose and say NO! or pinch the gums against the upper teeth and say NO! or, bite him back. That’s what the mother would do.

7) IF YOU CAN’T WATCH THE DOG, KENNEL IT.
Never leave the dog roaming unattended.

TWO SHORT 10 MINUTE SESSION A DAY GET’S FASTER RESULTS THAN ONE 20 MINUTE.
Try to never bore the pup. Keep it short and interesting.

9) BE CONSISTENT!
Use the same commands each time. Command the dog ONCE then correct if the command isn’t followed. Don’t tell the dog to “sit”, if it doesn’t, slap it’s butt and yell “sit!”, then let it walk away the next time.

10) PATIENCE!
Teach, teach, teach. When the dog doesn’t follow a command it is probably a lack of education on your part, not defiance on the dog’s.

11) NEVER YELL AT A DOG.
Command the dog in an even voice or you will panic and confuse the dog.

12) NEVER STRIKE A DOG IN ANGER.
You can undo a month of training in a fit of anger. All corrections should be thought out, precise and measured.

That’s it. Very easy but very hard to do. Consistency results in great dog’s." quote

Written by Gonehuntin' Feb.17/18

Featherfinder · Post by **Featherfinder** » Fri May 18, 2018 6:30 am

Kovan, give your Lab a slap (don't hammer him) or hold his muzzle. Tell us how that worked.....PLEASE?!?

Slistoe, if it serves you in some way (???), the breeds that retaliated to slapping or muzzle holding in my personal experience were both Brittanys and GSPs. But, that is NOT a breed specific response, as Kovan has conveyed. Try that with a decent Chesapeake Bay retriever....NOT!! I watched one put his teeth DEEP into his owner who was guiding a duck hunt at the time. It was off to the hospital for the guide! Mind you, it wasn't a young pup. Sorry, I just don't get slapping, what-so-ever.
Have I ever done it?
Yup....MANY years ago.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri May 18, 2018 3:19 pm

Kovan wrote:I cannot tell you how frustrated I am with my 9 weeks old chocolate lab biting everything and everyone. All I can say is I am trying to be as patient as I can be with him. I am a new dog owner and I am new to this website hoping to find help on here. I have tried to clinch his mouth when he bites and say NO BITING!. I have tried grabbing him on the back of his neck and say NO BITING!. I have tried leaving him in a time out area (basement) and................the results are the same...he comes back and bite and bite again. I have read up on so many ways of method to teach them not to bite well....he still bites.

All I can do is, have the imagination of him as a adult lab, out hunting fetching my ducks for me and say BE PATIENT. I hope I have the right mind set.....

Welcome to the forum.

Timing is everything. (The dog wouldn't know why he was in the basement. Forget that.) I've had some pretty "bitey" JRTs over the years and just continuing to squeeze their muzzle , and pushing them away eventually works. I also walk away. Social contact is what pup is looking for and biting sure gets it.

I also replace my hand with a dog bone to use instead. Don't be too gentle. It will work. You also may have picked a pretty aggressive pup whose behaviour will take longer to change. Make sure pup is getting at least twice a day of hard exercise.
Let us know how it goes.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri May 18, 2018 4:31 pm

Sharon wrote:
Kovan wrote:I cannot tell you how frustrated I am with my 9 weeks old chocolate lab biting everything and everyone. All I can say is I am trying to be as patient as I can be with him. I am a new dog owner and I am new to this website hoping to find help on here. I have tried to clinch his mouth when he bites and say NO BITING!. I have tried grabbing him on the back of his neck and say NO BITING!. I have tried leaving him in a time out area (basement) and................the results are the same...he comes back and bite and bite again. I have read up on so many ways of method to teach them not to bite well....he still bites.

All I can do is, have the imagination of him as a adult lab, out hunting fetching my ducks for me and say BE PATIENT. I hope I have the right mind set.....

Welcome to the forum.
Timing is everything. (The dog wouldn't know why he was in the basement. Forget that.) I've had some pretty "bitey" JRTs over the years and just continuing to squeeze their muzzle , and pushing them away eventually works. I also walk away. Social contact is what pup is looking for and biting sure gets it.
I also replace my hand with a dog bone to use instead. Don't be too gentle. It will work. You also may have picked a pretty aggressive pup whose behaviour will take longer to change. Make sure pup is getting at least twice a day of hard exercise.
Let us know how it goes.

If you read this ..It's pretty good advice even if you don't have a JRT !
Scruffing of the neck on any dog has and does have different meanings to both the user and the used . ? Yea,some comply and some don't . Depends on intent ! (imo) .If you don't have intent,then don't do it ! ..and if the dog doesn't know your intent , then 'Why use it' ? .
............
I had a jrt called 'Nipper' Sharon . He was aptly named . I had a Parson called 'Rat' who was aptly named . They were both nice around the grand children as long as the kids didn't get their fingers in front of the rat .

Post by **Sharon** » Fri May 18, 2018 4:48 pm

LOL Exactly.

Featherfinder · Post by **Featherfinder** » Fri May 25, 2018 5:44 am

Well said Polmaise.
Sharon, you make a very good point. Sometimes the energy levels domiciled within a young pup need vented. When they are not addressed constructively, pup will find his/her own way to do so. Pups don't bite you in their sleep.

Kovan · Post by **Kovan** » Thu May 31, 2018 6:44 am

Thank you all for the warm welcoming. Sorry I have been busy with Tank (my 11 weeks old chocolate lab) and all things that are going on. My lab still bites like crazy and my arm is all scar up. I have used the butt slap and holding the muzzle and also walking away...he comes back more aggressive when I hold his muzzle even bites harder. A slap in the butt seems to work better then holding his muzzle, he will stop and look at me for 5 seconds then goes back to biting. walking away also work at times, I notice once he know when I leave and come back a couple of times, he will start to lick me instead of biting me. I also tried shoving his toy in his mouth every time he tries to bite me but he loses interest in the toy and goes for my hand.. I'm not sure if I should be consistent with one method or just keep doing all of them until his stops??

The only thing I am concern about a slap in the butt is will it take affect on him when he gets older or when were out hunting. I don't want him to grow up worrying about me slapping his butt.

I love my boy Tank but he is just a chewing and biting machine. One thing I notice is he starting to not listen much, when I train him to do the basics like "sit, stay, down" he listens but after that.....PEWWWWWWW runs off and digs and eats grass and lord knows whatever he can put in his mouth....

Post by **Sharon** » Thu May 31, 2018 4:54 pm

Having read all your posts, this continuation of biting is not normal. You have a challenge on your hands.What were this dog's parents like?

Kovan · Post by **Kovan** » Thu May 31, 2018 6:00 pm

Sharon wrote:Having read all your posts, this continuation of biting is not normal. You have a challenge on your hands.What were this dog's parents like?

Sorry if i thread jacked this post..
Sharon, honestly this is on my bad part, i have not seen the parents in person. Being a new owner when i picked up my lab i was not thinking of seeing the parents. Ive only seen pictures some how i just forgot about the parents i even almost forgot to pay the owner...drove off and realized money was still in my pocket then drove back and pay.

It is a challenge to me but i am willing to continue to train and to stop his biting habits. Its not to the point where i cant completely play with him. He is actually a really good pup, hes not a pup that i as a new dog owner cant handle. I would just like to have someone guide me with advice to train him.

Featherfinder · Post by **Featherfinder** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:51 am

Kovan, thank you for your candid report Sir: My lab still bites like crazy and my arm is all scar up. I have used the butt slap and holding the muzzle and also walking away...he comes back more aggressive when I hold his muzzle even bites harder. A slap in the butt seems to work better then holding his muzzle, he will stop and look at me for 5 seconds then goes back to biting.

Hmmm....??? Somewhere I read that slapping/holding the muzzle can actually aggravate the situation.

Post by **slistoe** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:36 am

Perhaps he will read the previous responses and will now try a "claw finger" as opposed to a "knuckle rap" and will have much better success.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:07 am

If you can't stop a puppy from biting, you probably don't stand a chance of training it yourself. Perhaps you should dump the pup and buy a nicely started 2 year old. Not everyone can train a dog, especially a problem dog.

Kovan · Post by **Kovan** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:29 am

The only time he bites is when i play with him in a kind of a rough way. He is 11 weeks old and i only had him for three weeks i cant just ditch him. I would ditch a girl before i ditch my pup. I will continue doing what i do when he bites me. i do see a little better results in him from yesterday he also did good when i trained him. At the same time i am getting use to of it as in protecting my hands while playing with him. i notice when i make my hand into a fist he tends to stop biting my hand or some times i will test him, letting him bite to see if he bites, if he grabs grabs onto my hand i will say NO! Immediately then i will open my hand to see if he just licks my palm. Seems like that is working...so far he has not destroyed any furniture so thank god for that.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:00 am

There are very few truly vicious dogs in the hunting breeds.
The only reason what ever you do to make the dog stop biting does not work is because you were not firm enough. This is the one thing you can not tolerate and it will go only one way if it is not stopped.
Very nice puppies can be trained to be biters if they are not stopped early.
people who recommend kindness must not have watched a litter of puppies establish there pecking order.
I hade a very nice, well bred designer dog here because she was biting everybody in her family. She had been to treats and kindness trainers who were scared of her. the second time she attacked me I choked her into oblivion. this was a 55# 1 1/2 year old dog. She is now a very nice, calm family dog.
Chances are if the Op's dog is biting it is also lacking in manners. If the dog is rushing in an out ahead of you, putting his foot on yours, jumping on you or countless other signs of domination you will never be able to train him.
The dog I made reference to above, had no manners and was and needed a pack leader. I seen her last weekend for the first time since she left here 5 months ago. she is doing agility. she still respects me and will obey hand signals that I used but the owner does not.
Bottom line you need to do what it takes to stop the biting and now is the time.
it goes like this; Bite me once shame on you, bite me twice shame on me. ......................Cj

Kovan · Post by **Kovan** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:38 am

cjhills wrote:There are very few truly vicious dogs in the hunting breeds.
The only reason what ever you do to make the dog stop biting does not work is because you were not firm enough. This is the one thing you can not tolerate and it will go only one way if it is not stopped.
Very nice puppies can be trained to be biters if they are not stopped early.
people who recommend kindness must not have watched a litter of puppies establish there pecking order.
I hade a very nice, well bred designer dog here because she was biting everybody in her family. She had been to treats and kindness trainers who were scared of her. the second time she attacked me I choked her into oblivion. this was a 55# 1 1/2 year old dog. She is now a very nice, calm family dog.
Chances are if the Op's dog is biting it is also lacking in manners. If the dog is rushing in an out ahead of you, putting his foot on yours, jumping on you or countless other signs of domination you will never be able to train him.
The dog I made reference to above, had no manners and was and needed a pack leader. I seen her last weekend for the first time since she left here 5 months ago. she is doing agility. she still respects me and will obey hand signals that I used but the owner does not.
Bottom line you need to do what it takes to stop the biting and now is the time.
it goes like this; Bite me once shame on you, bite me twice shame on me. ......................Cj

Cjhills, thank you for your advice i do feel as i need to be more firm on my pup. It makes sense that they have to know who is the alpha. I dont strick him enough from doing things i dont want him to do. Im just affraid that it will take so much affect in him in the future when he gets older. I guess being a first time dog owner im being to soft..