As always any help, advise or input is appreciated
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Where were you when I needed a good judge? LOLFeatherfinder wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:05 amI used to do all manner of nasties while training such as flying a cripple (tethered) bird, walking the bird towards the dog, flushing back towards the dog, having a young pup rip a bird the trainee was standing, verbal release ("Ok...Break!!...Fetch!!...Alright...Let's go..."), etc. And, that was coupled with developing a rigorous muscular and cardio training regimen. Train for over-achievement. It serves your dog and YOU mentally in your candor/swagger/confidence around dicey situations. Your dog can sense your composure in a situation that might otherwise seem volatile.
Then....take what you get AND....remember to have a blast!!!
The hardest aspect of field trials is getting it in your head that the best dog doesn't always win. No...it isn't politics or anything like that. You are paying for the opportunity to run your dog under judgement of a person(s) that can only respond to what she/he sees and makes decisions dovetailed with his experience....period.
Any trial is only as good as it's weakest link, be it grounds, birds, bird planters, etc. Judges are simply at the forefront. The real challenge is getting experienced judges that have run the gauntlet of developing successful dogS themselves.
As already offered (and I've done my fair share of judging in a variety of venues since 1982, including 2 championships) I would need to assess ALL the critical factors before taking out a dog that "marked" a bird. There are MANY factors to consider along with the marking itself. As for placements, I would have to further consider what this dog was up against. To say that marking (meaning no forward motion towards the flushed bird) is an immediate disqualifier would more reflect the judging than the dog.
As a wild bird hunter, I expect my dogs to remain steady. As such, marking is a critical factor towards a successful retrieve - even more-so than a dog that is allowed to break on the flush or shot, in my opinion. The worse case scenario is the trial dog that is allowed to break when hunted but not when trialed. I'm not saying they aren't capable of that. I'm saying that dogs can somehow pick the worst times to get them confused.![]()
I can relate to this !!DonF wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:58 amThere's quite a bit of difference between a good trial dog and a great bird dog. Great bird dog will probably get you picked up every time! Moving out of cover to mark a bird is allowed in the guidelines but not by judge's. Spending a lot of time searching for a bird the dog didn't mark is fine, retrieving is a pass fail venture. Moving to keep a bird well located will get you picked up after you've called point. Well located finds get no extra credit! Great dog work has no place in field trials!
I would be highly suspect of a dog pointing birds 100yds away. Rather I believe what happened is the dog got to close and the birds moved out! The dog has been trained not the move once establishing point, birds ran. In the real word and great dog work the handler goes right to the dog and flush's a well pointed bird. Moving out of cover to mark a fall is great dog work and it is allowed, or used to be, in AKC. But with every AKC judge I've ever known it's a no no and could get you picked up right there and certainly will not get you a placement. There's bird dogs and there is trial dogs, big difference. Happy feet will get you too. That's when a bird is flushed and the dog's front feet start moving up and down, normally the dog won't move but won't get used either. I got picked up one time when a bird flushed directly at my dog. He ducked to keep from being hit and spun in a circle to mark the bird. Great dog work got him picked up!Sharon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:46 pmWhere were you when I needed a good judge? LOLFeatherfinder wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:05 amI used to do all manner of nasties while training such as flying a cripple (tethered) bird, walking the bird towards the dog, flushing back towards the dog, having a young pup rip a bird the trainee was standing, verbal release ("Ok...Break!!...Fetch!!...Alright...Let's go..."), etc. And, that was coupled with developing a rigorous muscular and cardio training regimen. Train for over-achievement. It serves your dog and YOU mentally in your candor/swagger/confidence around dicey situations. Your dog can sense your composure in a situation that might otherwise seem volatile.
Then....take what you get AND....remember to have a blast!!!
The hardest aspect of field trials is getting it in your head that the best dog doesn't always win. No...it isn't politics or anything like that. You are paying for the opportunity to run your dog under judgement of a person(s) that can only respond to what she/he sees and makes decisions dovetailed with his experience....period.
Any trial is only as good as it's weakest link, be it grounds, birds, bird planters, etc. Judges are simply at the forefront. The real challenge is getting experienced judges that have run the gauntlet of developing successful dogS themselves.
As already offered (and I've done my fair share of judging in a variety of venues since 1982, including 2 championships) I would need to assess ALL the critical factors before taking out a dog that "marked" a bird. There are MANY factors to consider along with the marking itself. As for placements, I would have to further consider what this dog was up against. To say that marking (meaning no forward motion towards the flushed bird) is an immediate disqualifier would more reflect the judging than the dog.
As a wild bird hunter, I expect my dogs to remain steady. As such, marking is a critical factor towards a successful retrieve - even more-so than a dog that is allowed to break on the flush or shot, in my opinion. The worse case scenario is the trial dog that is allowed to break when hunted but not when trialed. I'm not saying they aren't capable of that. I'm saying that dogs can somehow pick the worst times to get them confused.![]()
Dog is on point . I'm about 100 yards away. I see the birds leave and go about 20 feet away to settle in again. Dog moves turning to re point. Judge says, "pick up your dog- disqualified." Apparently the dog was to stay pointing where there were no birds until I searched the no bird bushes , and then signalled her to relocate. Up to that point she had been perfect in her work.
Yes it still bugs me . LOL
Featherfinder -Featherfinder wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:40 amGood grief Shags...tell me you're joking!?!?! "ANYTIME a bracemate stops your dog has to back." What a pile of hooey!!!
This is a reflection of the host club not getting a qualified judge. The trial host should have been properly/courteously informed for future considerations.