jakemaster wrote:
I agree AA dog like a Porsche BUT: Shooting dog like a Lexus its a smoooooooth ride and a pleasure to watch!!
I think I like your analogy better than mine.
RayGubernat wrote:
In practical terms, however, the ability to discern the difference between an all age dog and a shooting dog, particularly a big running shooting dog is often severely limited by the size and configuraton of the venue. In a smaller venue, or one with twists and turns, the natural shooting dog actually has an advantage over the true all age dog, in my estimation. The old truism about nt being able to judge what you cannot see comes into it, I think. All things being equal, you will typically see the shooting dog more often and it will (again typically) be running a little fancier, while the all age dog will be usng up more real estate with its (typically) longer stride and ground eating gait.
Where I have typically trialed, which is admittedly NOT out West, the only practical difference between a big running shooting dog and an all age dog is the length of time that the dog can be out of judgement before the judges start to lose interest. The size and configuration of the venue is very definitely a limiting factor. There are only about a half dozen venues, within a day's drive of me that can allow an all age dog to approach what it is capable of and really only one that I an aware of(Hoffman, NC although I personally have never been there) that is condusive to an all age performance. There is simply no place near me where you can turn a dog loose and ride for an hour in one direction to follow the dog.
There is often no discernible difference(to me at least) on a smaller venue between the all age dog race and the big running shooting dog race, except that you might expect to see the shooting dog a bit more. In a shooting dog stake in my area, I would expect the dog to pop back into view periodically and hunt its way out. I would expect the all age dog, typically , to line out more and be found on point to the front...wherever that may turn out to be.
I do not pretend to be the authoritative voice for the AA circuit or in any way speak for them. I simply know more about them because of my locale. (Western Kentucky) We have arguably the best breeders for all age pointers in the country within under an hour of me in any direction. Obviously Ferrell Miller, Joe Don House, Gary Lester, Ray Warren, Ike Todd, and Ben Adams who either handle or breed top AA dogs. But again I do not, in any manner, speak for any of these guys.
With respect to your statement about a "big running shooting dog" and an all age dog. At first thought I could not agree with your statement, but after thinking about it I might agree. Comes to mind a statement made by a professional baseball scout about talent in Major League baseball. He said, " Eighty percent of the players in the league all have about the same amount of talent, ten percent have greater talent and they are the superstars, the last ten percent can go back and forth between Minor and Major leagues".
A "big running shooting dog", I believe would fall into that last ten percent.
With respect to your statement about venues:
In practical terms, however, the ability to discern the difference between an all age dog and a shooting dog, particularly a big running shooting dog is often severely limited by the size and configuraton of the venue. In a smaller venue, or one with twists and turns, the natural shooting dog actually has an advantage over the true all age dog, in my estimation.
I think great dogs adjust to the terrain they are in. I believe it is the mark of a truly great AA dog. In one of my previous posts I alluded to the fact, the dog has to adjust in an all age trial; when the terrain gets tight "the superstars" have the intelligence to adjust their race. It seems many just do not understand exactly what an AA race is all about. It is not turning a dog loose and it takes off in a dead sprint straight ahead for an hour. That prevailing mentality is why Ferrell did so well with his breeding.
Edit: I just remembered we have a couple of pretty good shooting dog breeders here also. Scott Shrum has bred a couple champions at Four Rivers Kennels, Covergirl and Commander, and also Rob Butler with Elhew Sinbad and Elhew Swami. I know Sinbad jumped ship into the AA circuit but they are world class shooting dogs.