Trials

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ChipP
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Trials

Post by ChipP » Tue May 10, 2022 7:14 am

I'm a longtime lab trainer/duck hunter/retriever hunt test guy and new to the board (as a poster). It took me a little while to understand the differences between AKC and UKC retriever tests and field trials. Eg rules, strategies, judges. That being said can someone please give me the 10,000 foot view of the different pointing trials. I'm vaguely familiar with the broad differences between walking and horseback. But what are the different agencies/governing body's/etc. For instance, is a shoot to retrieve always a walking trial. Would love the insight before I load my truck and start driving around this fall/winter to watch trials
thanks
Chip
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cjhills
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Re: Trials

Post by cjhills » Tue May 10, 2022 10:56 am

A Shoot To retrieve is always a walking trial. Some people almost run.
Otherwise I know very little else about trials.
I know almost everything about pointing dog hunt tests though.........Cjhills

ChipP
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Re: Trials

Post by ChipP » Tue May 10, 2022 11:43 am

CJHills, let the info about pointing hunt test fly. I'm wanting information.
Thx
ChipP
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shags
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Re: Trials

Post by shags » Tue May 10, 2022 1:31 pm

There are so many different trial formats that your best bet may be to do some googling and finding the rules etc of the event you want to observe. If it's an AKC trial, you can find the rules and regulations on their website. American Field horseback under UKC, you can check out via The Amateur Field Trial Clubs of America. There is USComplete, NSTRA, NAVHDA (tests), UFTCA, and several others.
Then, if you have questions about one or the other, come back here and you'll get specific answers. There really aren't any blanket rules that cover each and every stake in each format, except that the dogs have to be pointing breeds and registered with one or another of the governing bodies.

ChipP
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Re: Trials

Post by ChipP » Tue May 10, 2022 1:58 pm

shags that is helpful. it gives me a place to start looking. thanks

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Re: Trials

Post by shags » Tue May 10, 2022 3:11 pm

Forgot to mention that there are short Youtube videos for different trials, to give you an overall idea simce written rules and regs leave a lot to a newb's imagination. Search bird dog field trials there. A member here, Skydance or Skydancer does some (American Field now under UKC); they're pretty good.

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Re: Trials

Post by weimdogman » Tue May 10, 2022 7:02 pm

NAVHDA has what is called a Handlers Clinic where they have judges go over the rules and scoring. It really is a good learning session as many scenarios are discussed. A proficient dog and a second inexperienced dog usually run the na and ut tests so participants see what is actually going on and evaluate it them selves.

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Re: Trials

Post by Sharon » Wed May 11, 2022 10:04 am

"American Field trials run under minimum rule standards. They may include local weekend "fun" trials and Championships that may last several weeks.
These trials not only include open stakes; horseback All-Age, Shooting Dog, but Amateur Field Trial Clubs of America stakes as well.
They also include Futurities on all gamebirds, puppy, derby, restricted breed, Cover Dog, ABHA, NBHA, US Complete, recognized Walking and one course venues.
The American Field (FDSB) website lists the recognized trials and Championships held across the United States and Japan.


minimum standards...
http://www.americanfield.org/Pages/FTRequirements.html

Field Trial Rules and Regulations....
http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~emorgan/dwnld2.htm " quote gunner
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Re: Trials

Post by RayGubernat » Wed May 11, 2022 4:34 pm

ChipP -

For AKC and American Field trials there are four basic categories of trials: Puppy, Derby, Shooting Dog(AF) and Gun Dog(AKC) and All Age. Puppy stakes are generally run without bird being put out for the dogs and pointing is not expected. Derby dogs are older than puppy and are expected to point and hold their birds, at least for a little while, but not required to be steady to wing and shot. Shooting Dogs and Gun Dogs are required to be steady to wing and shot. In AKC, continental breeds there is also a retrieving requirement requiring birds to be shot. The main difference between AF Shooting Dogs and AKC Gun Dogs is SUPPOSED to be one of application... with the AKC Gun Dog being expected to seek game at a range and in a manner which is consistent with a hunter. All age dogs are expected to seek game with emphasis on a wide ranging and far flung search. In each of these, it is a brace competition(2 dogs/ 2 handlers per brace) and the competition is head to head with(typically) three placements being awarded.

There are lots of details, but if you are going to watch the dogs, most of those details are more important to the competitors and judges than the spectators.

Both AF and AKC sponsor walking and horseback stakes. Typically, as you might expect, the dogs in walking stakes are usually more in view during the brace than their horseback counterparts.

As mentioned above, there are also AKC hunt tests, which are all walking, and consist of Junior Hunter, Senior Hunter and Master Hunter classes. The hunt test dogs compete against a written standard, so it is entirely possible for multiple dogs to gain a pass. The requirements to gain a Junior Hunter pass are( in my opinion) the bare minimum that a dog should possess to be taken afield to hunt. A Senior Hunter dog is a fairly accomplished dog that should be a pleasure to hunt over. The Master Hunter dog is typically a very disciplined and capable hunting dog.

Once you figure out what type of event(s) you want to watch, you will undoubtedly have more questions.

RayG

ChipP
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Re: Trials

Post by ChipP » Wed May 11, 2022 7:32 pm

Thanks y'all. That was helpful. Hats off to you RayG. Very concise overview.
CP

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Dakotazeb
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Re: Trials

Post by Dakotazeb » Sun May 22, 2022 11:32 am

Does the FDSB use the same title designations as the AKC? i.e.: FC = Field Champion, AFC = Amateur Field Champion, NFC = National Field Champion, etc.
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Re: Trials

Post by slistoe » Sun May 22, 2022 11:55 am

Dakotazeb wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 11:32 am
Does the FDSB use the same title designations as the AKC? i.e.: FC = Field Champion, AFC = Amateur Field Champion, NFC = National Field Champion, etc.
No, they use the designation CH.

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Dakotazeb
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Re: Trials

Post by Dakotazeb » Mon May 23, 2022 7:22 am

slistoe wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 11:55 am
Dakotazeb wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 11:32 am
Does the FDSB use the same title designations as the AKC? i.e.: FC = Field Champion, AFC = Amateur Field Champion, NFC = National Field Champion, etc.
No, they use the designation CH.
That can get confusing as the majority of CH titles designate a Show or Bench Champion. Too bad there can't be some type of standardization of titles for field champions.
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Re: Trials

Post by shags » Mon May 23, 2022 9:19 am

There is a standardization. You only need to pay attention to which governing body issued the pedigree.
On FDSB pedigrees CH designates a field championship win. They don't have bench championships so no CH as a bench champion. Don't know if this will change under UKC rules or not.
For AKC issued pedigrees, CH is bench; FC,AFC, NFC, NAFC are prefixes for field champs. There's also some kind of Grand Champion thing going on for both. AKC also has a mile long list of suffixes letters for everything under the sun. Their website has info on all that.

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Re: Trials

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon May 23, 2022 10:52 am

Some breeds are more suited to varied trial venues than others. You should pick your breed, then pick your trial. For instance, you probably are not going to win a horseback stake with a Griffon or DD. In the NAVHDA venue, it is reasonable rare for an English Pointer to become a VC. There are exceptions to everything but a lot depends on the breed you want to get. Or, pick the type of trial or test you want to run, then pick the breed that is dominant in it.
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Re: Trials

Post by Gcole » Thu May 26, 2022 12:40 pm

In regard to your question about shoot to retrieve (NSTRA).
I see you have already gotten some accurate and knowledgeable replies about AF and AKC trials.

NSTRA trials are 30 minute braces, with the exception of Regional and National Trials (final hour).
They are ran against a bracemate, typically fields range from 25-50 acres.

Dogs are judged on a numerical scale in three categories from 0-100.
Finds
Retrieves
Ground Coverage

They are judged from 0-75 in two categories:
Obedience
Back/ Honor( however, they can only have one scoreable back per brace).

Dogs are not required to be steady to wing and shot, although, if you want to receive good scores, they need to be staunch to flush and have a snappy direct retrieve to hand.

Most trials are a dbl/ dbl ( two days, two fields per day) Open / Amateur combined.
6 birds are planted in the first brace and 5 birds in each of the remaining braces.

It would be best to go to different trials and talk to handlers and spectators to get a better perspective of what would be the best fit for you and your dog.

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Re: Trials

Post by oldbeek » Fri May 27, 2022 9:36 pm

NSTRA, was designed to extend your season with your dog. it replicates hunting. I started into it just to extend my season but after I won a few I am hooked. My dog loves the competition.When up against a really good dog, she excels. Her form is crappy but she finds more birds than most. My Britt and my sons GSP see lots of wild quail and always hunt with e collars on. They are perfect on wild birds with e collars on.Take that collar off and it is a crap shoot.

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