Breed choice input

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jussbrutal

Breed choice input

Post by jussbrutal » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:35 pm

Hey guys. I am finally ready to pull the trigger :shock: on a new pup(so to speak). I have narrowed my search down to three breeds.. in order of preference so far.

1. GWP/DD
2. PP
3. WPG

I really like the furry faces. I am interested in anything you experienced people have to say about each breed, good and bad. I have hunted behind some dogs.. just not my own.

I primarily hunt waterfowl (please do not suggest a lab/chessie). I want a versatile dog that will hunt what I want to hunt. :) I hunt 25-30 days out of the year, and that is without a dog!! Thank you in advance.

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gary
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Post by gary » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:25 pm

When you get that new pup I know you will be proud of it no matter which one you chose.
My airboats duck hunt through most of our regular season and guidehunt snow geese the rest of the season and offer Barrer Island Quail hunts on the days that ducks are not plentiful on Gulf of Mexico Coast.
My best dog is a Weim I raised from a 90 lb field dog bitch and field trial champion father.He is the best gun dog I have ever hunted over and can out retrieve the best of the best in heavy rough salt water seas,has retrieved more geese in one weekend(105) than most.If you Hunt in extreamly cold weather I would suggest another breed......Good Luck with your new pup

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TAK
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Post by TAK » Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:43 pm

Wire Hair would be my Choice!

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ward myers
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gwp

Post by ward myers » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:15 pm

i would choose a GWP
ONLY BECAUSE A PP
are not recongized by the AKC
this only makes a difference if you would ever want to compete the pup in the future
i watched a pair of PP WORK wasnt impressed

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ward myers
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gwp

Post by ward myers » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:17 pm

i own 4 GSP's but have hunted over a GWP
& would consider one myself

jussbrutal

Post by jussbrutal » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:46 am

retrieved more geese in one weekend(105) than most
Nice work by the dog. But that's not a hunt, it's a slaughter. Brags like that add fuel to the anti's fire. :?

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Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:48 am

There are so many snow geese down in the rice fields that they are pests. 105 geese in a weekend by a professional guide service is less than a spit over Niagara Falls.

Getting back on topic, I wouldn't use a Weim for retrieving in cold water. They don't have the coat for it.

Best,

Decoy

Post by Decoy » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:00 am

I would recomend a PP or DD.
The german testing system ensures a greater chance of getting a versatile dog.
In order to be a DD the dogs parents must have passed various versatile tests water and field work with feather and fur.
In order for a GWP to be a GWP the only requirements are that the dogs parents be GWPs.

That is not to say that getting a GWP from a breeder that tests in the NAVHDA format will not be a true versatile dog.
I guess all I am saying is dont get an AKC breed from a backyard breeder!!

GrouseHunter22

Post by GrouseHunter22 » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:50 pm

Make sure that when you do get a pup that it is from a reputable breeder.

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gary
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Post by gary » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:28 pm

jussbrutal,

Greg is right about the Snows...for they are foxy and so many.. that the dark geese are declineing at an alarming rate,simply put.. there are so many now that P&W has taken limits off late season hunts.....
Most grain and rice farmers will pay someone to kill them(if they can keep them out of there fields)....The problem with this is farmers want you to post yourself in the field every day and not just in one spot,or weekends only,for the geese are smart and will move to the other end of his fields and continue distroying crops.
They remind me of Crow hunts I have been on,for I'm convinced that they tell all the others snows to beware.Most often one low pass is all that you will get.....no matter how big your spread is or how well you call....after that first morning volly all the succeding birds will be in range of a 30-30 Rifle.." maybe."
The Anti's know this and have seen on wildlife shows the nesting areas being distroyed by the sheer numbers of Snows.

Enough.....of that.....What's your thoughts on your pup?

Decoy

Post by Decoy » Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:57 pm

Sorry in advance that this post is so long :!:

For reasons that I wont get into Migratory birds are Federally regulated, that means that in order to change the methods or number of birds that can be taken it takes an Act of Congress.
Below is an amendment by congress to curtail the damage that Snow geese are causing.
16 U.S.C.A. 703
"Section 1. Short Title.

"This Act [enacting this note] may be cited as the 'Arctic Tundra Habitat Emergency Conservation Act'.

"Sec. 2. Findings and Purposes.

"(a) Findings.--The Congress finds the following:

"(1) The winter index population of mid-continent light geese was 800,000 birds in 1969, while the total population of such geese is more than 5,200,000 birds today.

"(2) The population of mid-continent light geese is expanding by over 5 percent each year, and in the absence of new wildlife management actions it could grow to more than 6,800,000 breeding light geese in 3 years.

"(3) The primary reasons for this unprecedented population growth are--

"(A) the expansion of agricultural areas and the resulting abundance of cereal grain crops in the United States;

"(B) the establishment of sanctuaries along the United States flyways of migrating light geese; and

"(C) a decline in light geese harvest rates.

"(4) As a direct result of this population explosion, the Hudson Bay Lowlands Salt-Marsh ecosystem in Canada is being systematically destroyed. This ecosystem contains approximately 135,000 acres of essential habitat for migrating light geese and many other avian species. Biologists have testified that one-third of this habitat has been destroyed, one-third is on the brink of devastation, and the remaining one-third is overgrazed.

"(5) The destruction of the Arctic tundra is having a severe negative impact on many avian species that breed or migrate through this habitat, including the following:

"(A) Canada Goose.

"(B) American Wigeon.

"(C) Dowitcher.

"(D) Hudsonian Godwit.

"(E) Stilt Sandpiper.

"(F) Northern Shoveler.

"(G) Red-Breasted Merganser.

"(H) Oldsquaw.

"(I) Parasitic Jaeger.

"(J) Whimbrel.

"(K) Yellow Rail.

"(6) It is essential that the current population of mid-continent light geese be reduced by 50 percent by the year 2005 to ensure that the fragile Arctic tundra is not irreversibly damaged.

"(b) Purposes.--The purposes of this Act [this note] are the following:

"(1) To reduce the population of mid-continent light geese.

"(2) To assure the long-term conservation of mid-continent light geese and the biological diversity of the ecosystem upon which many North American migratory birds depend.

"Sec. 3. Force and Effect of Rules to Control Overabundant Mid-continent Light Geese Populations.

"(a) Force and effect.--

"(1) In general.--The rules published by the Service on February 16, 1999, relating to use of additional hunting methods to increase the harvest of mid-continent light geese (64 Fed. Reg. 7507-7517) and the establishment of a conservation order for the reduction of mid-continent light goose populations (64 Fed. Reg. 7517-7528), shall have the force and effect of law.

"(2) Public notice.--The Secretary, acting through the Director of the Service, shall take such action as is necessary to appropriately notify the public of the force and effect of the rules referred to in paragraph (1).

"(b) Application.--Subsection (a) shall apply only during the period that--

"(1) begins on the date of the enactment of this Act [Nov. 24, 1999]; and

"(2) ends on the latest of--

"(A) the effective date of rules issued by the Service after such date of the enactment to control overabundant mid-continent light geese populations;

"(B) the date of the publication of a final environmental impact statement for such rules under section 102(2)(C) of the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 (42 U.S.C. 4332(2)(C)); and

"(C) May 15, 2001.

"(c) Rule of construction.--This section shall not be construed to limit the authority of the Secretary or the Service to issue rules, under another law, to regulate the taking of mid-continent light geese.

"Sec. 4. Comprehensive Management Plan.

"(a) In general.--Not later than the end of the period described in section 103(b) [sic; probably should be 'section 3(b)' of this note], the Secretary shall prepare, and as appropriate implement, a comprehensive, long-term plan for the management of mid-continent light geese and the conservation of their habitat.

"(b) Required elements.--The plan shall apply principles of adaptive resource management and shall include--

"(1) a description of methods for monitoring the levels of populations and the levels of harvest of mid-continent light geese, and recommendations concerning long-term harvest levels;

"(2) recommendations concerning other means for the management of mid-continent light goose populations, taking into account the reasons for the population growth specified in section 102(a)(3) [sic; probably should be 'section 2(a)(3)' of this note];

"(3) an assessment of, and recommendations relating to, conservation of the breeding habitat of mid-continent light geese;

"(4) an assessment of, and recommendations relating to, conservation of native species of wildlife adversely affected by the overabundance of mid-continent light geese, including the species specified in section 102(a)(5) [sic; probably should be 'section 2(a)(5)' of this note]; and

"(5) an identification of methods for promoting collaboration with the Government of Canada, States, and other interested persons.

"(c) Authorization of appropriations.--There is authorized to be appropriated to carry out this section $1,000,000 for each of fiscal years 2000 through 2002.

"Sec. 5. Definitions.

"In this Act [this note]:

"(1) Mid-continent light geese.--The term 'mid-continent light geese' means Lesser snow geese (Anser caerulescens caerulescens) and Ross' geese (Anser rossii) that primarily migrate between Canada and the States of Alabama, Arkansas , Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

"(2) Secretary.--The term 'Secretary' means the Secretary of the Interior.

"(3) Service.--The term 'Service' means the United States Fish and Wildlife Service."

Appropriation

Authorization of appropriation, see section 709a of this title.
The above Amendment enabled the US Fish and Wildlife Service proscribe the following remedial measures
RULES and REGULATIONS

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

Fish and Wildlife Service

50 CFR Part 20

RIN 1018-AF25

Migratory Bird Hunting; Regulations To Increase Harvest of Mid-Continent Light
Geese.

Tuesday, February 16, 1999

*7507 AGENCY: Fish and Wildlife Service, Interior.

ACTION: Final rule.

SUMMARY: Mid-continent light goose populations (lesser snow and Ross' goose combined) has nearly quadrupled within the last 30 years, and have become seriously injurious to their habitat and habitat important to other migratory birds. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service or "we") believes that these populations exceed the long-term carrying capacity of their breeding habitats and must be reduced. This rule authorizes the use of additional hunting methods (electronic callers and unplugged shotguns) during a normal open light-goose hunting season when all other waterfowl and crane hunting seasons, excluding falconry, are closed.

DATES: This rule takes effect immediately upon publication on February 16, 1999.
The US Fish and Wildlife found that taking no action would cause
Summary of Environmental Consequences of Taking No Action

At each site they occupy, MCLG will continue to degrade the plant communities until food and other resources are exhausted, forcing yet more expansion of colonies. The pattern has been, and will continue to be, that as existing nesting colonies expand, they exploit successively poorer quality habitats, which are less able to accommodate them and which become degraded more quickly. Eventually, the coastal salt-marsh communities surrounding Hudson Bay and James Bay will become remnant. There will be little chance of recovery of such habitat as long as MCLG populations remain high. Even if goose populations decline at some point due to natural causes, which may not occur to the degree necessary, it will take the habitat a prolonged time period to recover. The functioning of the whole coastal ecosystem, from consolidation of sediments by colonizing plants to provision of suitable habitats for invertebrate and vertebrate fauna, will be detrimentally and possibly irrevocably altered. Similar conditions will prevail at selected non-coastal areas where MCLG have occupied most of the suitable nesting habitats. As many as 30 other avian species, including American wigeon, Northern shoveler, stilt sandpiper, Hudsonian godwit, and others, that utilize those habitats have declined locally, presumably due to habitat degradation by MCLG. Other species, such as Southern James Bay Canada geese, a species of management concern, that breed on nearby Akimiski Island and numerous other waterfowl species that migrate and stage with MCLG, have been and will continue to be negatively impacted. Arctic mammalian herbivores will also be impacted as the vegetative communities upon which they depend become depleted. Due to the rapidly expanding populations and the associated ecological impacts identified, we have concluded that MCLG populations have become seriously injurious to themselves and other migratory birds, their habitat and habitat of other migratory birds.

We expect that MCLG populations will continue to grow at least 5% annually, resulting in more severe and widespread ecological impacts. Although several factors influence population dynamics, the greatest single factor in the populations' increase is high and increasing adult survival rates (Rockwell et al. 1997b). Therefore, removing adults from the populations is the most effective and efficient approach in reducing the populations. Experts feel that breaking eggs and other non-lethal techniques have been determined to be ineffective in significantly reducing the populations within a reasonable time to preserve and protect habitat (Batt 1997).

We have attempted to curb the growth of MCLG populations by increasing bag and possession limits and extending the open hunting season length for light geese to 107 days, the maximum allowed by the Treaty. However, due to the rapid rise in MCLG numbers, low hunter success, and low hunter interest, harvest rate (the percentage of the population that is harvested), has declined despite evidence that the number of geese harvested has increased (USFWS 1997b). The decline in harvest rate indicates that the current management strategies are not sufficient to stabilize or reduce population growth rates.

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tfbirddog2
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suggestion

Post by tfbirddog2 » Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:45 pm

I would go with GWP,I have seen and heard of more guys useing them on big and little waterfowl more and more in the past two years a very hearty dog by far.I myself not to impressed with PPs a little stupid to me.

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ward myers
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breed

Post by ward myers » Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:36 pm

i have only seen 2 PP & they were to timid for my liking

emae

Post by emae » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:11 pm

We've got 2 gwps and we have really enjoyed them. The first is a 2 1/2 yr. old female. She has an extremely high prey drive. When she's outside, hunting is the only thing on her mind and she "can" be far ranging. Our new guy is just about 8 months and he's more relaxed (which is sometimes kinda nice). They both have lots of natural ability, he was honoring her points at a very early, was really cool to see. We are working w/getting him gun trained now as well as your general training to work up to his first year of hunting.

On the flip side, our female can tone it down when she's indoors and they are both awesome w/our young children. They want to be w/their people tho, don't think they would do well as a "kennel dog".

I'm not a field trialer, so don't know if that matters to you thats just my take on our dogs.

If you haven't already found it, you can go to: www.gwpca.com and get lots of info. on them there too.

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ward myers
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gwp

Post by ward myers » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:44 pm

emae thats really nice
can you post pics ?

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Post by snips » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:38 pm

I have worked 5 GWP`s from Ron Wilsons last litter sired by his Nat`l Ch male and they are as nice as it gets. He is going to repeat that breeding and they are grabbing them up. Rick even said he wanted one. He is in Atlanta.
brenda

emae

Post by emae » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:38 pm

I recently got a pretty good shot of her pointing and him honoring. Let me try this:
Image

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TAK
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Post by TAK » Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:51 pm

Nice picture!

jussbrutal

Post by jussbrutal » Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:55 am

Emae,

Nice shot! I'd been to the gwpca site a few times, but got turned off when one of the moderators didn't hunt with his GWP's..what else do you do with a hunting dog :!: :?: I'll do a more specific search.

Snips,

I am hoping to be able to get a first pic pup from hunting lines if at all possible. This will be a long term "investment" of time and money, and I really want to get a pup with as high a potential as possible. One of the last picks could indeed turn out to be a good dog..I just want to maximize my chanced by being close to the top of that ladder.

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Post by snips » Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:56 am

Well, Ron hunts all his dogs. And out of 5 I worked in this particular litter, any one of them was a keeper. He sent me a bitch he got back at 11 mo that had not seen a bird. The second bird she came to she locked up solid. I am now thu about 6 wks of her training and she is awsome. They have more lock up on point than any Wire I have ever worked, they hunt with a good range, have super tail sets, and wonderful temperments. They seem to mature somewhat faster, nice to have so you don`t have to wait 2 yrs to train them. Just thought I`d let you know.
brenda

jussbrutal

Post by jussbrutal » Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:22 pm

Snips,

Sounds like some nice dogs. :) But there is more to a good GWP then just pointing birds. I am looking for a dog that will be just as at home in the water, as they are in the uplands. To me, that is a keeper! :D :D A versatile that will do it all 8) Is that too much to ask :?:

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ward myers
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breed

Post by ward myers » Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:58 pm

a gsp or gwp
will do the trick you just have to make shure the parents do what you want & introduce retrieving & water as soon as possible

jussbrutal

Post by jussbrutal » Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:41 pm

holy ward...look at all the ways to get a hold of you ..not taking any chances huh :?: :?: bet you don't give the ole lady all those addies eh :lol: :lol: at least not during hunting season :wink:
Last edited by jussbrutal on Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sdgord

gwp

Post by sdgord » Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:43 pm

Brenda were those pups you worked out of Wilson? I got to see Wilson a couple of times when dropping my dog off with Dixon. Wilson is a neat looking nice going dog.SDGORD

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Post by snips » Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Yep, Wilsons the sire. This bitch I have here looks just like him. Ron has him back now and brought him up, nice looking dog. I am totally impressed with his pups. It takes some pretty nice dogs to make me go on like this.
brenda

sdgord

gwp

Post by sdgord » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:00 am

Brenda, I know Dixon does not breed a lot of dogs for foot hunters as he feels they have a bit too much motor for the average hunter.I have seen a few of the dogs of his breeding at field trials and they are always competitive. But they seem quite willing to take training early.SDGORD

birddog

Post by birddog » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:43 am

Hi Brenda, out of curiosity how is it Ron had you work 5 pups out of the same litter. Was he having you work them to give them a little training for resale? How old were they when you got them? How far did you take them? Just wondering why he would hang onto 5 pups all from the same litter and put that kind of time and money into them. Did he think you might see something he couldn't ? Most breeders want to move their pups before the cost to keep them sky rockets. Just wondreing if I might learn something.
Janet

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Post by snips » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 am

Janet, 2 of them he kept, 2 belonged to his good buddy, and the bitch he got back from a guy who`s health got bad. That bitch was sold to a guy in Ne while she was here for evaluation, the guy in Ne left her for training. I trained the dam of these guys and a bitch out of the dam another litter. They are the same lines......SDGORD, yep, they got some wheels, but I don`t think it`s too much for a foot hunter at all. I
brenda

birddog

Post by birddog » Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:50 pm

Thanks Brenda, I had to ask. 5 pups sent for training seemed to be a hugh investment for one person.

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ward myers
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gwp

Post by ward myers » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:15 pm

hi brenda you have gwp as well as gsps ?

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nstra

Post by ward myers » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:16 pm

brenda you still coming down to fla at the end of this month ?

dognut

Post by dognut » Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:48 am

I have had the chance to hunt with quite a few different breeds in my short life as i have had friends with too much money and not enough sense. in that I live in south ga now so I perfer the pointer or setter but I love the GWP/dd have a friend that breeds some fine dogs here in ga. and i am learning about the vizsla now i have never hunted or seen one. but am curious so if anyone in or near south ga has one would love to try to hook up some time.

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Post by Greg Jennings » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:52 am

Hi Dognut,

I'm in Montgomery, AL and would be happy to hook up to hunt or train together. I also have friends near Atlanta that you might converge with at a field trial.

The best thing to do is to PM me through this forum.

Best regards,

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Post by snips » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:08 am

Yeah Ward. We are going down next Sun and will be there all week.
brenda

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ward myers
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lake wales

Post by ward myers » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:40 pm

cool see you & rick there

Odinn's Whoaer

Field Trials & Vizslas

Post by Odinn's Whoaer » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:35 am

The Tampa Bay Vizsla Club will be holding a field trial in Lake City, FL, (just S. of Valdosta) in April. They are open to all breeds, but many Vizsla to look at. I will be running my Vizsla Feb. 18th and (hopefully)19th at a trial up in Cedartown, GA (west of Atlanta), and in Jackson, GA, (hour south of Atlanta) the first weekend of March (don't have confirmation for that one yet). For a longer haul, the South Louisiana Vizsla Club will be holding a trial in....You got it! South Louisiana!! Yep, I'm going to that one, too!. ;)

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Post by Greg Jennings » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:44 am

Steve,

Tania is the friend from Atlanta that I was telling you about. I took the liberty of going ahead and contacting her because I know she trails in North FL.

Her boy, Odinn, is a very nice V. I think he's destined to be a DC.

Best,

Odinn's Whoaer

Post by Odinn's Whoaer » Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:50 pm

Thanks, Greg! I sure hope so. Can't stop now, and hope to finish before Nav is on the trial circuit. :)

dognut

Post by dognut » Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:16 am

hey guys and gals thanks i think i will head down to lake city that is 30 min south and take a look. If you dont mind could you post or email the directions. thanks yall.

Odinn's Whoaer

Post by Odinn's Whoaer » Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:28 am

DIRECTIONS
I-75 to old Exit 80 (High Springs/Lake City). North (left) on US 41-441 about 2 miles. Turn left (west) on CR 349. Go to stop sign. Turn right on CR 131. Go about 2 miles to The Oaks Plantation (Big D). Sign on left.

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feb 18

Post by ward myers » Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:53 am

feb 18 is a friday

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Greg Jennings
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Post by Greg Jennings » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:31 am

The Lake City Field Trail is put on by the Tampa Bay Vizsla Club and is Friday April 1st through Sunday the 3rd.

http://www.akc.org/events/search/index. ... 2005414005

I might go!

Best regards,

Odinn's Whoaer

Post by Odinn's Whoaer » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:54 am

This Friday, Feb. 18th, is the first day of the Cedartown, GA, trial.

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Greg Jennings
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Post by Greg Jennings » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:27 am

Go Odinn! Go Tania!

Best,

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brutal

Post by ward myers » Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:53 pm

just brutal
hey bud you kind of lost me on
on the HOLY WARD reply
send me a private message

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