Should Gun Dog Forum Be Censored?

[grant]

Should Gun Dog Forum censor material that is abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, or sexually-oriented?

[Country-Side Breeders]

Most certainly. Although we are all adults here and should have enough common sense to NOT slander, some of us still do, for whatever reason they seem fit, and make things worse for the rest of us. If we can't talk civilized amongst each other, then censorship needs to come into play. There's no reason why we can't talk dogs here without being belittled by others that have differences of opinions and express it in demeaning ways.

[terryg]

censorship is dangerous as we all have to agree that the person doing it keeps the right frame of mind. that has historically been difficult.

i agree with all being grownups and being civilized also.

in my opinion, if you bring facts to back up your opinion that is fine even if the topic is controversal. to argue a fact you use other facts. an old irish proverb says "you can always tell who is losing the argument because he is the first to start calling names"

i am posting something i found in another location that is credited to the great philosopher "socrates". i don't know how true that(socrates) is but it is funny and good advice at the same time.

i believe it applies here:

In ancient Greece (469-399 BC), Socrates was widely lauded for his wisdom. One day the great philosopher came upon an acquaintance that ran up to him excitedly and said, "Socrates, do you know what I just heard about one of your students?"

"Wait a moment," Socrates replied. "Before you tell me I'd like you to pass a little test. It's called the Triple Filter Test."

"Triple filter?"

"That's right," Socrates continued. "Before you talk to me about my student let's take a moment to filter what you're going to say. The first filter is Truth. Have you made absolutely sure that what you are about to tell me is true?"

"No," the man said, "actually I just heard about it and..."

"All right," said Socrates. "So you don't really know if it's true or not. Now let's try the second filter, the filter of Goodness. Is what you are about to tell me about my student something good?"

"No, on the contrary..."

"So," Socrates continued, "you want to tell me something bad about him, even though you're not certain it's true?"

The man shrugged, a little embarrassed. Socrates continued. "You may still pass the test though, because there is a third filter - the filter of Usefulness. Is what you want to tell me about my student going to be useful to me?"

"No, not really..."

"Well," concluded Socrates, "if what you want to tell me is neither True nor Good nor even Useful, why tell it to me at all?"

The man was defeated and ashamed. This is the reason Socrates was a great philosopher and held in such high esteem. It also why he didn't know socrates was having an affair his wife.
_________________

[boykinhntr]

I participate in many different forums. I am always amazed at the lack of respect shown by forum members. I understand that there are differing opinions,but how can you ARGUE over gun dogs? Debate is healthy but it should never turn into personal attacks. I would like to see this forum as different than the others. I have always had hunting dogs but have not participated in trials. I went to another forum to learn more about them and it nearly changed my mind b/c of the negativity. Every post people were getting slammed b/c of something they did while training. None of them sounded like they were having fun. I hope things can be different here.

[ken]

but on a forum such as this, there must be some perameters. I witnessed on this forum another being slammed b/c her dogs were dogs some had never heard of. What's the point of that? Thankfully the posts were removed and now the "debate" has included many many people who have one thing or another to say, it's interesting. I don't have any interest, really, in going to a site to read derogatory remarks and all-out harrassment of people. So censor this forum, make it a safe, enjoyable educational site and you will have people coming from all over to ask questions, to give their opinions and you will have created something successful. That is all!!

[sochuck]

when two people agree, one of them is no longer needed!

[grant]

Here's my $.02..... I'm all for debates, as long as they are not abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, or sexually-oriented etc...bla...bla...bla....

So, lets have a forum that’s full of useful info, opinions, debates, or whatever, but I think name calling and personal slams should be left at the door.

I guess for me, a slam against my kids (Bell & Carl) is a slam against me, and as we would say down here in the south “Emm’s fightn’ words”
=)

[Lisalongun]

Cool - Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Freedom of speech 'n' all that

And surely we are all here as we have an opinion on gundogs. They may differ, but we will all learn something. If we don't then we cannot call ourselves trainers.

All good dog trainers are constantly learning.

So let everyone have their say.

[Ayres]

Just a note:

When something is stated as a fact, it should be a confirmed fact.

When something is stated as an opinion, it should be observed by everyone else that an opinion is not purported to be a fact, and everyone is entitled to their own.

When something is stated that is hearsay, it should be stated as such. That way people can check out the validity for themselves.

With a little maturity, everyone can take anything they don't like with a grain of salt.

As for censorship, though, I'm for censorship of obscene language and topics, but that should be all the censorship that is necessary. In that form, it's called "moderation," done by a forum moderator. Grant, you've made a wonderful forum and I've not seen any problems so far that haven't ended up in an agreement to just disagree. Thanks for all the effort!

[WildRose]

Debate and disagreement are the foundations of learning particularly for adults. However I've seen on a number of forums where things get completely out of hand. In a couple of instances completely unfounded, baseless and slanderous assaults were launched against several breeders, by people (or one person with several login names) who refused to identify themselves. These things cannot be tolerated. Unfortunately the interent has created a whole new avenue for pettiness, and hatefullness and slander to thrive due to the anonymity it offers.

Were I moderating any of these forms the first instance would be earn a lifetime ban, with no reprieve.

If you have a real problem with a particular breeder, trainer, or dog, and you wish to air it in a public form you at least owe the public a right to challenge your credibitliy and credentials and that cannot be done when one hides behind an anonymous login name.

Beyond that, personal and petty high school bickering really has no place in a forum where adults and even children may come to learn about our dogs and how and what we do with them.

Hate speech, foul language, and the like have no place period. This is a form for adults, as are most of these online sites and they should be respected as should the other members. If a site is going to be a free for all, I want no part of it, however I don't want to waste my time either on sites where the moderator has their own agenda to support either. CR

[Colleen]

I'm in favor of free speech and against censorship about as much as one can be. However, as was mentioned, kids can access this site wanting to learn about dogs, and don't need to be reading profanity. The boards also get rather drab when people start criticizing and pointing fingers too. I think in this case it's a good idea to keep everyone respectful and tuned into what this board is for.

As for sexually-oriented posts...anyone who does that on a dog forum should be turned into the authorities!!!

[Frenchy]

I guess my opinion is that as long as we stick to dogs and hunting we should be OK. The thing I hate is when sites such as this one are used to express political views or as a place to discuss world events. This is were passions can be flamed and people can get off track and be insulted or worse. Stick with what we can all agree on, DOGS ARE THE BEST.

[feralaussie]

I'm all for censorship of this site.

I've looked at a few other forums that related to hunting/shooting. I was totally exhausted scanning through the profanity and slander trying to find some useful bit of information. I was totally put off by what I read and would certainly not feel comfortable to be amongst them.

Suffice to say, "I ain't going back!"

[Decoy]

Hey folks just wanted to clear some things up.
When a defamatory statement is published or written it is "libel" not "slander"
The tort slander is committed when a defamatory statement is made orally.
But in order for either libel or slander to occur the defamatory statement MUST be FALSE; therefore truth is an absolute defense.

Enough legal talk, I do not think the forum needs to be censored since it is moderated. Vulgar language and defamatory statements can adequately be dealt with through the use of moderators.

Decoy

[Ayres]

Decoy....

A fellow law student, eh? Welcome to the forum!

[Colleen]

For all intents and purposes, moderator and censor are just a difference of semantics. Moderating is censorship, though sometimes a bit delayed and after the fact. And judging by several other forums, it is necessary as well.

Good to see a couple law students on here...I am studying to be a legal interpreter, so now I have some first-hand contacts for those confusing legal system courses....

[Decoy]

Colleen,

Just let us know if we can help.

Decoy

[Wa Chukar Hunter]

Yes, this is after all a gun dog forum - never know who is reading it.

[Wagonmaster]

yes. absolutely.

[markj]

Yep, but it is a lot of work.

I sure do like the pics of dogs in the avatars here. I think I like that more than the forum topics

[GSP4619]

Well with me being fairly new and a little wet behind the ears and I don't hunt LOL. But I like coming in here and seeing what everyone has to say or what they have done or what events they have comeing up.

I think everyone is mature and don't really cross the line

[Ryan]

I know its a little late but I dont think it should be censored I think you should deal with the person that said it and get him or her to change it. Dealing with the person will stop tis i think.

[Virgil]

I used to run a forum myself.
I didn't sensor language, it was a site for adults (not adult site) so as long as it didn't get out of hand.
We all hear it everyday.

Now if someone got personal as far as religeon or race or something, I may have had to step in.
In the 4 years I ran the site, I never had to once though.
I sent out a few reminders to treat each other as adults, but that's about as far as I had to go.

I was paying for the site completely out of my own pocket with no adds or sponsers, so as far as I was concerned, I didn't have to answer to anyone but myself.

When you get into advertisements and sponsers and the like, it gets a bit trickier.

[Vizsla Vince]

I think that the moderators on this site do a fine job already.

So far, every thread i've read has had mature adults participating. I really enjoy the respectful & helpful attitude of this forum, especially when I ask stupid questions.

[ezzy333]

Keep asking them Vince, they are the only kind I understand or can answer.

Ezzy

[Ryan]

I think that the moderators on this site do a fine job already.

So far, every thread i've read has had mature adults participating. I really enjoy the respectful & helpful attitude of this forum, especially when I ask stupid questions.

Totally agree the mods here do a good job.

I have been on forums where the guys that have been on there a while wont even answer a new guys post because it is a "newby or a stupid" question.

[rosiesdad]

No need for swearing, or mean spirited remarks. Always room for discussion and opinions, if presented in a constructive manner.
Better to have a civil friendly group than loose good members over unnecessary drivel.

[David]

yes. absolutely.

[rkalgren]

I don't think we could ask for a better mederated forum. Grant you are doing wonderful things for the gun dog community as a whole. I love the different opinions that come from all walks of life on this forum. As far as censorship, I guess moderators are sensors, but when done like it is here it doesn't seem like censorship. The moderators only step in when apsolutly nessicary. If a subject gets out of hand they lock that thread. Keep up the good work. I know I for one appreciate it.

[grant]

Thanks Bob!

[LSKGSPs]

Grant.............What you are doing is working. Don't add to yourwork load.
We have one of the best boards on the web. I think "we" (the board members) can handle the "jerks" on our own.

Thanks for the work you do. Don't worry about censoring.

[byrsta]

ABSOLUTELY! No place for bad stuff you wouldn't want your kids to see. I want my kids (I have two daughters) to hunt and visit places like this to get new ideas and advice. I don't want them stumbling upon something some moron thought was funny or hot. We need to encourage our kids that it is alright to hunt, especially when you eat what you shoot.

[CZShooter]

Good moderating (whether some want to call it censorship or not) is essential to maintaining an atmosphere where normal folks want to spend time, ask questions, share experiences and enjoy their leisure time. Without it this site (as many others before it have learned) would become a vast wasteland.

Two thumbs up for intelligent moderating!

[Loke]

When you join this forum (and many others), you are required to read and agree with the forum rules. Since this is a private venture, the owner of this forum can have whatever rules they please. The owners of this forum want a place where everyone is made to feel welcome, and free from those things that they (and others) find offensive. In order to post on this forum, you must first agree to those rules. If you don't want to treat the other folks on this forum with a little common (or uncommon these days) courtesy and respect, then don't come here. No one forced you to come here. If you are concerned that this may violate your freedom of speech, remember this, the first amendment does not guarantee that we have to listen to you. You are free to go elsewhere if you do not want to abide by the rules of this forum, that you agreed to, when you joined this forum.

[windswept]

Yes!
This is my favorite board because of the generally cordial discussion. Nearly every post expresses an opinion and that is helpful. Opinions that take the form of personal attacks and attitudes that belittle other people over things like my favorite event or my favorite breed are simply childish and I, for one appreciate that sort of thing being reined in.
This is a great forum. Let's keep it that way.
Tom

[tenbearsviz]

Grant. Moderate as needed.

As a forum participant AND and someone who pays to have advertisement on this site, I prefer it to be a clean and focused forum.

A small stray from the educational process and into a sparring match of words is not always a bad thing as long as it stays clean. We can disagree but should remain respectful.

Don

[lightonthebay]

Loke, I think you are getting closer to the point regarding "freedom of speech" issue, however, "freedom of speech" has nothing to do with a private forum! (at least in the constitutional sense) "Freedom of speech" was placed in our constitution to prevent government from censoring our speech not, the speech of forum contributors, by private citizens who are controlling their own domain.
I generally don't care for censorship. Most of the abusers wouldn't speak the way they do to fellow contributors to this forum if they were "face to face" with them. The reasons for more "face to face" civility are numerous and you all know them. The meek and otherwise ineffectual can become tyranical giants when protected behind their keyboards. Therefore, I believe some censorship is required in order to promote a useful forum. On the other hand passion can get to the best of us so we really should think a bit more before posting so we don't ruin our reputations from an ill considered comment, while at the same time keeping censorship at bay.
On a side note I also think that censorship can be a farce when forum contributors feel compelled to smear smiley faces and waivers of intent at the end of each insult they post. I do like the honesty of people who are willing to say what they mean without preemptive apologies.
I sure as heck wouldn't want to walk the line these moderators must tread to spank the children, while avoiding a chilling effect on the productiveness of the forum.
Good luck moderators and thanks for taking on the task.
Jim

[Sharon]

Freedom of speech has never meant saying whatever you want, whenever you want ,however you want.

If people can't control themselves on a forum, then they need to be censored. Every member has a right to be treated with respect.

[nj gsp]

I rpefer a clean, modeated forum. Otherwise sockpuppets, trolls, and other internet riff-raff spoil it for everyone. I abandoned a fly fishing forum I was a frequent contributor to for many years because the site owner did not want to curb abusive and obnoxious trolls. So, it was no longer fun or interesting. I have a thick skin, but the constant rhetoric concerning certain topics and abusive arguments, sparring, and baiting by trolls was mind-numbing.

However, it is irritating that some words which are harmless are automatically edited. For example, if I want to say that "bleep"'s Sporting Goods has 12 gauge shells on sale, the post reads "bleep" Sporting Goods. So, to fake the censorship screen out, I must type it as "D1cks" If it was dirty or offensive, then they wouldn't call themselves "D1ck's Sporting Goods" and put the word in 8 foot high letters on the store sign.

Honestly, I have an uncle named Richard, but he uses "D1ck" as his moniker.I suppose I could start calling him "Uncle Bleep" but he might find that offensive...

[lightonthebay]

"Sockpuppet" -- I like that! It pretty much "sums up" the mind set of abusers who use the same old worn out insults because they think it makes them look clever. However, I do sincerely feel sorry for some of the abusers who must be living miserable lives, so that the only salve they seem to have for their mental hyper-sensitivities, is to seek out and dimminish others. I try my best to ignore their behavior. I figure their lives are punishment enough.

[ceadmin]

I voted yes but aren't those reasons that we have moderators for? (good english, huh)