How to train a pointer to stay in range?

TheLukai1100
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How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by TheLukai1100 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:10 am

How do I train a dog to stay in range?
I don't want the dog to quarter, I just want him to stay within 20 yards or so.
Can someone Give me some tips?
or a good book about teaching a dog to hunt in range?

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by birddogger » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:21 am

Are you serious?? If that is what you want, you really need a flushing breed. A Spinone would be the only pointing breed I know of that would maybe work that close, or maybe not. :lol:

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Trekmoor » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:01 am

I agree with Birddogger. Get a spaniel or even an old,fat lab. The worst hunting dog I ever saw happened to be a Spinone and even she trundled about at a little bit more than 20 yards. Any of my spaniels would need quite a bit of controlling to keep within 20 yards so that sort of distance for a pointer would be completely foreign to it's nature.

To answer your question . Train the dog as a spaniel ,allowing it to move no more than ten yards out from you and that may result in you seriously inhibiting your dog from going more than double that distance. Personally, I think I would invest in a Pekingese.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by cjhills » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:32 am

TheLukai1100 wrote:How do I train a dog to stay in range?
I don't want the dog to quarter, I just want him to stay within 20 yards or so.
Can someone Give me some tips?
or a good book about teaching a dog to hunt in range?
The object of a pointing dog is for the dog to find the bird, hold point until you get there, let you, or him, flush the bird and retrieve it after it is shot. Makes no difference if it is at 30 or 300 yards. It is intimidating at first, but pretty soon you will want the dog to hunt farther out. Cj

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:11 am

You don't need a dog for your style of hunting. You will kick up your own birds at 20 yards. Don't mess up a good pointer for this. It is like buying a Formula 1 car to go get groceries. :?

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by PntrRookie » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:05 am

TheLukai1100 wrote:How do I train a dog to stay in range? I don't want the dog to quarter, I just want him to stay within 20 yards or so. Can someone Give me some tips? or a good book about teaching a dog to hunt in range?
I have some questions for you that may help us give you some help.
1. I see you are in Maine, what type of hunting do you do...wild, grouse, clubs, etc.
2. How old is this dog?
3. What pointing breed?
3. Your first pointer?
4. How old are you? (this does matter) ;)

I can say from personal experience that when I saw my first pointing dog get out 100, 200, 300 yards, I almost cried. Once I realized that is what he was bred for (and I got the proper training (with the help of a pro and NAVHDA club)) I would have NOTHING else. Key here is you understanding what they are meant to do, then go thru the "fun"of getting them trained to point and stand until you get there. It is not an overnight process and it will cause you to pull your hair out. But once the dog stands for YOU, it is something you will be happy you have!

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by ruffbritt4 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:06 am

I think that for a new pointing dog owner, it is the hardest thing to get used to. At least it is for me. My brittany ranges and can run hard. If you establish a good whistle recall, you have nothing to worry about.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by millerms06 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:07 am

Given your location, I am only assuming you will do more grouse hunting than prairie hunting. Run the pup in cover this summer as much as possible. Plant your birds back in the woods if you decide on planting birds for the pup. Dogs create their own range from you, based on the cover you expose them to, so let the pup figure out what is comfortable. Trust me when I say this, the dog will be looking for you more than you looking for it.

It is eay to WANT a dog to stay close, but you will not WANT a dog like that when the birds start running on you. And I have to ask, and I mean this in the nicest way you can think of being asked a question, is this your first upland bird dog?

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by millerms06 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:09 am

Looks like a couple of you beat me to some questions already. Sorry for the doubling up on them.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:17 am

I do not want to beat you up over this. Others have said what needs to be said.

you are new to all of this. I understand that. The prospect of having your young dog "take off" on you and never come back is scary and intimidating. The idea of a dog operating independently and thus "out of our control" is very unsettling to many folks. I am something of a control freak about many aspects of my life, so running pointing dogs is akin to psychotherapy, because, to do best, what they are intended to do, they need to have a degree of autonomy that the control freak in me just HATES to give up.

What you need to understand fully...is that the uncomfortable feeling that you have about letting your dog out of your sphere of control... is something YOU need to work on. The dog has no such discomfort. The dog is genetically disposed to hunt with you and for you, but to do so more or less independently.

I have been following after BIG running bird dogs for over fifty years now and, knock wood, I ain't lost one permanently yet. A couple chased deer and were recovered the next day, but with those couple of exceptions my dogs came home with me every night. Yours will too. I am talking about pointers and dogs that are routinely out of sight and even earshot. The dog knows where you are and the dog is out there hunting, as it is meant to. If it finds a bird, it will point and hold until you get there. When it does not know where you are, it will come and find YOU.

I want you to try something. Take your youngster out into an open field and let it run. Then find a tree or bush and hide behind it and be silent. Watch the dog. I will give you very large odds on the fact that your youngster will recognize that you have disappeared and will come back looking for you. I have always found that if a bird dog likes you...it will come back for you, and if it don't...it won't. My bet is that your youngster will come running back looking for you... perhaps even in a panic. They WANT to be with us.

I will be honest and tell you that I have never completely lost that uneasy feeling that I get when I turn a dog loose. Even with tracking equipment on, there is that little knot in the pit of the stomach. But when you hear the bell stop, or the beeper switch to point mode, you know the thing that is on the dog's mind is: "Where are you Boss. I GOT him.. Now get your butt over here and kill this thing for me."

Hang in there. It is worth it...I promise.

RayG

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Winchey » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:00 am

Where in Maine are you?

There are several field trials run south of Bangor in Hamden and Prospect, Maine. There are also trials in McAdam, New Brunswick, right across the border from Vanceborough, Maine, which is 40 minutes or so from Lincoln, Maine. We also have a Championship and a fun trial in Debec, New Brunswick which is right across the border from Houlton, Maine. And another Championship in Nackawic, New Brunswick which is about 40 minutes from Houlton. There are also trials in Northern New Hampshire not far from Berlin, New Hampshire. There is the Sebastacook Navhda chapter as well in Waterville, Maine I think. Great opportunity to see bird dogs doing what they are supposed to do on wild birds, and meet experienced dog people in your area that can help you out.

There are a lot of people that are into birddogs on these two sites that are in the Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, New Brunswick area that maybe are able to help you out.

http://maritimecoverdog.com/forum/index.php
http://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/

I back tracked your old posts and looked at the kennel you are getting your dog from and I imagine you are going to be trying to get that dog in the thick stuff hunting for a while before you will ever have to worry about him running too big, if at all.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by TheLukai1100 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:10 pm

The reason I asked how to keep the dog in range, is because when I was a kid my dad had a gsp and it stayed within 30 yards.
another reason is because the grouse especially in southern Maine where I live don't hold well. so if the dog goes on point 200 yards away, The bird flushes it will keep hunting.
I know the dogs parents are pretty good grouse dogs, so I think after a few grouse He'll learn to keep his distance (hopefully).
Thanks for the help!!

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:35 pm

TheLukai1100 wrote:The reason I asked how to keep the dog in range, is because when I was a kid my dad had a gsp and it stayed within 30 yards.
another reason is because the grouse especially in southern Maine where I live don't hold well. so if the dog goes on point 200 yards away, The bird flushes it will keep hunting.
I know the dogs parents are pretty good grouse dogs, so I think after a few grouse He'll learn to keep his distance (hopefully).
Thanks for the help!!

You are right about the dog figuring out how to pin the birds. You will need to figure out how to get in position for a shot without spooking the bird. Time on the ground for the dog and shoeleather for you will get that done.

There is a process called "bending" that might facilitate modification to a dog's natural ground application. It is used, I think, more often with dogs that run in mixed or open cover to shorten up the dog's casts, but there is no reason why you cannot use it to modify ground application in the woods. It involves use of turning commands and an e-collar.


BTW, well bred shorthairs of today are, in many cases, much different animals than they were 20-30 years ago. They often got a lot more go.

RayG

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Winchey » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:58 pm

I really think that birds not holding so the dog has to stay close is BS, IMO. The birds often flush when you get 20 or 30 yards from them, if your dog is only 30 to 50 yards away on point, then you only have a couple seconds before you end up flushing the bird and thus the self fullfulling prophesy is engrained.

I'll take a 100 or 150 yard point in the woods any day of the week over a 30 yard point on the side of the logging road. Those birds are easy to spook. When it is just the dog and the bird, a good one will figure it out. It is the man right behind the dog that screws things up IMO.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by birddogger » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:55 pm

TheLukai1100 wrote:The reason I asked how to keep the dog in range, is because when I was a kid my dad had a gsp and it stayed within 30 yards.
another reason is because the grouse especially in southern Maine where I live don't hold well. so if the dog goes on point 200 yards away, The bird flushes it will keep hunting.
I know the dogs parents are pretty good grouse dogs, so I think after a few grouse He'll learn to keep his distance (hopefully).
Thanks for the help!!
40 or so yrs. ago I did hunt over a couple of shorthairs that didn't range any further than that. I wouldn't have given a plug nickel for both of them but the owner seemed plenty pleased with them, and he didn't like my big running, bird finding machine, pointer. :? All we hunted back then was bob white quail. Needless to say, his dogs weren't finding any birds, while we were constantly covering ground to find my dog standing birds. Just thought I would throw that in. :D

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Winchey » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:02 pm

Most of the shorthairs around here that I have seen are the same way, don't go anywhere and don't do anything, I would apend a heck of a lot more time getting it to hunt and walking through cover hoping to get it on birds then realing it in. I did see one last weekend that looked like those west coast pointer infused ones lol, and it was quite a dog.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Neil » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:19 am

This makes me sad.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Trekmoor » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:16 am

Me too, spaniels and labs can do the close distance stuff out hunting. Spaniels are bred to do it. I.M.O. the pointing breeds are for finding game where game is scattered over large areas of land where game is very sparse.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Neil » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:33 am

I believe strongly that a pointing dog is to find birds you are unlikely to find without them, particularly when birds are scarce.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by whoadog » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:44 am

I hunt pheasants in Kansas. When the birds are running and I feel like I need to pull my dogs in, I use a change of direction command. The word I use is "turn", the whistle command is three very short blasts. It simply means, "change direction". That way I can rein a dog in a little without bringing him all the way in. Pretty darn handy sometimes when things are tough and the birds are busting way, way out.
Neil wrote:I believe strongly that a pointing dog is to find birds you are unlikely to find without them, particularly when birds are scarce.
I agree as well but I can't afford to have a bunch of different dogs for the different styles of hunting I do. I hunt quail along hedge rows and in thickets with the same dog that I hunt prairie chicken in the pastures and do small party pheasant drives through CRP and row crops. So, I teach my pointers some spaniel tricks that way when I need it, I have it. Do I sacrifice some things to have a more general type of dog than a specialist? Probably, but the guys I hunt with keep asking me and my dogs to hunt with them (that wasn't always the case) so I must be doing something right.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Neil » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:57 am

Understood. I appreciate a versatile dog. I have big ranging and moderate ranging pointing dogs, flushers, and retrievers. I pick the one best suited for the location, bird, and habitat. But I have facilities for 8+ dogs.

But if you are advocating keeping a versatile pointing dog at 20 yards, I think you and the OP need a flusher or non-slip retriever. Some things are just wrong.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by cjuve » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:51 am

Neil wrote:Understood. I appreciate a versatile dog. I have big ranging and moderate ranging pointing dogs, flushers, and retrievers. I pick the one best suited for the location, bird, and habitat. But I have facilities for 8+ dogs.

But if you are advocating keeping a versatile pointing dog at 20 yards, I think you and the OP need a flusher or non-slip retriever. Some things are just wrong.

x 10

Different breeds for different applications
if you want a pointer at 20 yds you are just goping against what they were bred for.
To answer the OP:
You may have to tie 2 of the dogs legs up

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by DoubleBarrel GunDogs » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:30 pm

I remember a guy who guided at a pen raised bird outfit several years ago. He supposedly had a pointer that hunted at 20 yards. I asked him why he didn't just run flushing dogs? He stated that he needed a dog that would hunt close and hold point for clients to have ample time to get into position to shoot. So I guess this makes sense for some situations? However, I suspect his dog was bumping or rooting out birds.

If you really want a dog to hunt within 20 yards, you need to make the dog think there are always birds near you. Lead the dog to planted birds with a check cord (fishing), and always have a bird bag with pigeons when training. So that you can toss birds for him often. The dog will have a tendency to "pop" or look to you for direction, but this is the only way I can think of to get a dog to always stay in this range.

And yes Neil, this makes me sad as well. :wink:

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Stoneface » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:46 pm

I like a dog to work close enough so I can enjoy the dog work. That said, I do like to see a dog really roll when the country is open... as long as I can enjoy watching them. That's my preference. Some folks never want to see a dog unless he's on point or they're picking him up. If you want a dog to work at thirty yards then no body has the right to tell you that you "need" a flushing dog. If I wanted a dog to work within gun range I would get a pointing dog and teach him to work that range. Nothing against flushing dogs or retrievers, but nothing gets my blood up and puts goosebumps on my neck like a pointing dog. What I'm saying is, it's all subjective. If that's what you want then it is no one else's business.

To train a dog to stay in please, PLEASE stay away from the eCollar. Especially since you're so new to all of thise. A lot of people think they can just shock their dog beyond a certain yardage and keep them reigned in... and it works. It also establishes a bunch of other problems with a dog, like stickiness (not wanting to leave your side), anxiety in the field, etc. If you want to train your dog to hang close then start as young as you can and just flat overload him with birds in real close proximity. You want to teach him that he doesn't have to range to find birds. Get yourself a small field, about four acres or so - even less if you like - and put out about five birds. If you can get birds that he absolutely cannot catch them turn him loose to find them on his own he'll not get more than a few strides before his first bird. After that bird flushes and he goes to hunting again he'll run right into another bird. Before long if he hasn't found a bird real quick he'll not want to chase the horizon to find one, he'll buckle down and try to cover his immediate area more thoroughly. Another thing would be to call him in if he gets beyond the range you want him at. Everytime he crosses that threshold, call him in. Do those two things on a consistent basis and you'll have a real, real close-working dog before too long.

One more thing. Just because you call him into range in training does NOT mean you should do it while hunting. Get him conditioned to that range early on so when you go hunting you can keep your mouth shut.
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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Winchey » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:15 pm

If you have a 20 yard pointing dog for grouse, you ain't gonna get many spooky ones pointed anyways so what is the point, unless you are just gonna shoot wild flushes since you are close enough to do so. I could care less, just don't fool yourself.

And for the record I have seen lots of dogs like that, that don't go anywhere, bigger challenge is getting them off the path road or trail and past 50 yards.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by SetterNut » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:13 pm

If you want a pointing dog to stay in gun range, you maybe should just get a flushing dog.
The reason for pointing dogs is to have them range out and hold birds till you get there. When they are young and learning, you are going to have some birds get bumped. That's part of the learning process. But if you are disciplined and only shoot birds that have been properly pointed, you will end up with a solid pointing dog, that ranges out and find many times more birds than you would otherwise find.


This range may not be suitable for the grouse woods, but it works great on quail and Prairie Chicken in KS. But I do have pheasant run out on them some of the time. But that is part of the game.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by TheLukai1100 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:10 pm

So if the dog hunts out of sight and is on point, How am I supposed to know where he is?
I know I can buy a gps for my dog, But how did people find they're dogs on point before gps's?

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Winchey » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:48 pm

Bell. There is a fella south of Bangor that makes some of the best there are.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Trekmoor » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:56 pm

They must have done what made sense to them and kept their dogs within ranges where they could still see them ? I don't have a GPS and I don't expect to be buying one unless I win the Lottery. I keep my hunting dogs pretty much where I have a chance of seeing them in open country and train the dogs to hunt far closer in when in woodlands. I was given a bell by a friend a while ago but I am not sure I would hear it stop ringing even when woodland range hunting.

I learned my lesson the hard way during my very first pointing dog trial. It was held in woodlands and my grouse moor accustomed young bitch hunted the woods at near to grouse moor distances. The judges made two comments. (1) "If we cannot see the dog we cannot judge the dog ." (2) "We only got to see her as she whizzed past like Haile's Comet about once in every 86 years !" Those were fair comments to make in those surroundings.

I manage to train dogs without all the gizmos that can be bought but I certainly would use a GPS if the cost of it came out of someone elses pocket. :lol:

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Winchey » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:40 pm

Tremkor, much of the North East is woodland, there is no open terrain that hold wild birds in my province of New Brunswick aside from the south east corner of the province which hold some pheasants, there is no open season on.

In our coverdog trials, held in Maine and New Brunswick, most often it is not possible to see your dog past 10 or 20 yards. I probably own a dozen bells myself, some I can hear at 350 yards on a good day. In our trials the only tracking device you can use is a bell, the dog needs to be consistently on the edge of bell range to win most often, so 100 to 200 yards and beyond. We find the dogs on point just fine.

If we had a trial in the woods here and the judge expected to see the dog at all times it would be a mockery.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Trekmoor » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:47 am

Thanks for the info Winchey. I keep dogs in to under 100 yards in woodlands and quite often to under 40 yards if the woods are really thick. I haven't tried it yet but I think the bell I have used to hang from a goats neck ! :lol: Belled dogs are very uncommon in Britain , I was going to buy a couple of the bells the falconers use until I was given this big brute of a bell. It seems to be made of solid brass and it is heavy.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Neil » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:27 am

For grouse, other than in trials, where a bell is requried to keep track of their wide ranging dogs, most of the hunters I know are going to GPS/Garmin.

And grouse dogs do run big, right at the edge of bell range. And they find and handle grouse.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Jagerdawg » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:19 pm

I have no problem hearing my dogs beeper collar at two or three hundred yards even in the woods. You just walk to the beep

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Winchey » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:47 pm

I use a bell/astro combo when hunting. Bell/beeper on point only or just using tone is good too.

Not a fan of the constant beep on a beeper collar, or just an astro. Neither the astro or the beeper can tell you as much about what a dog is doing as a good old fashioned bell, although they do make it easier to find a dog on point.

I try not to rely on the astro so much as your ability to keep track of and to find a bell that has fallen silent quickly deteriorates and in a trial if you can't find them stopped, you can't win. Not that I win anyways lol.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Jagerdawg » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:04 pm

In the woods I like to run the dogs with the beeper on point only and wearing a bell also. Winchey is right the sound of the bell can tell alot.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by TheLukai1100 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:54 pm

How far away will a bell be heard from?, I don't really want to spend the money on a beeper.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Winchey » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:53 pm

Depends on the dogs gait and speed, cover wind etc... Serious people have different bells for different dogs wind conditions. The North Woods and Canadion Low Tone on Lion Country Supply are great, the sunkhaze bells on dogs limited are great as well.

Like I said, depends on the dog and conditions but some I can hear well at 350 yards. Most quality bells you can hear well on any dog at 100 yards cery well.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by roaniecowpony » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:01 am

To the OP...it sounds like a pointing Lab might be a good fit. Especially given the Lab's enthusiasm for tracking/retrieving in heavy cover.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by TheLukai1100 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:50 am

roaniecowpony wrote:To the OP...it sounds like a pointing Lab might be a good fit. Especially given the Lab's enthusiasm for tracking/retrieving in heavy cover.
I wanted a pointing lab but there's none around here that I could find. So I got a gsp.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by slistoe » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:09 pm

roaniecowpony wrote:To the OP...it sounds like a pointing Lab might be a good fit. Especially given the Lab's enthusiasm for tracking/retrieving in heavy cover.
And why do you think a pointing lab would be any more likely to be inside 20 yards? Any working lab that is worth owning will hang outside of 100 yards all day just fine.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by roaniecowpony » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:10 am

My lab won't hang out much past 30 yards. Please elaborate on why she's not worth owning.
Last edited by roaniecowpony on Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by slistoe » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:31 am

Why do you have a pointer?
How do you recover a 60 yard cripple?

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Neil » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:05 pm

I hunted grouse with a guy that kept his goldens within 20 yards, while effective, I did not enjoy it. We walked up and flushed more birds than the dogs did, but we did not lose a bird, they were great retrievers!

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by roaniecowpony » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:40 pm

I thought I had a good upland hunting lab worth owning until now. What do you recommend?
Image

Image

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by slistoe » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:00 pm

Whatever floats your boat.
Why do you own a pointer?

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Francois P vd Walt » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:15 pm

birddogger wrote:Are you serious?? If that is what you want, you really need a flushing breed. A Spinone would be the only pointing breed I know of that would maybe work that close, or maybe not. :lol:

Charlie
+1 it will be easier to get a spaniel or one of the flushing breeds, but if you keep at recalling your dog to work close he will adapt might take some time......

Good luck and remember to have fun!

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by roaniecowpony » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:27 pm

slistoe wrote:Whatever floats your boat.
Why do you own a pointer?
I appreciate your insight.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by jimbo&rooster » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:34 pm

TheLukai1100 wrote:So if the dog hunts out of sight and is on point, How am I supposed to know where he is?
I know I can buy a gps for my dog, But how did people find they're dogs on point before gps's?

My assumption is that you have not hunted over many dogs or if you have they weren't yours so you didn't pay attention to what they were doing. I run as many as 3 dogs at anytime in broken CRP that is often chest high where you aren't always likely to see a dog even if it passes within 10-15yds. You quickly learn to listen for a dog breathing in the cover (and can sometimes tell the difference in dogs) you learn to notice a flash of fur, or the breaking of branches, and you know that is your dog. I can put all 3 of mine on the ground at the same time and saddle up and go and can tell you where any of them are within reason at any time. You keep asking about bells and have gotten answers. I don't like a beeper but have used them. I guess what I'm staying is take your dog put him on the ground and see what happens with a little experience and some time in the woods you will figure it out.
A limit on the strap is nice, but the kill has nothing to do with tradition.

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Trekmoor » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:45 am

I agree with the above. I had my 8-9 months old brit pup out this morning in cover far higher than she is, I saw her very infrequently. That cover was swarming with rabbits and I know she chased several but she always found me again and I always had a pretty good idea of where she was anyway. I blew the turn whistle on her only about 4-5 times during a 3/4 hour walk and blew recall just twice in that same period.

A dogs owner develops the ability to keep track of his dog and his dog develops the ability to keep track of it's owner.

Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

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Re: How to train a pointer to stay in range?

Post by Ruffshooter » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:13 am

This assumption that the birds will fly off is just wrong. Will they walk off yes, but your dog will know this and will learn to relocate. If your dog is trained to stop to flush. It will stop to flush when it bumps or crowds or busts a bird.
Two if the bird is with in site of the dog probaly the bird will not move. I have seen this my self,many times once particulary unique, I had a dog on the high side of a blow down and the bird at the base of the blow down, the bird looking at the dog and dog looking at bird, and when I got there it finally flushed and I promptly missed.

As said before: Use a good quality brass bell. Get a beeper from cabelas or that lovells one. You will find your dog. Bells are all that were ever used before beepers.

Not to mention; pay attention to your dogs location via hearing and seeing. Train it to respond to commands. (JOIN NAVHDA)

Why does anyone need a Pointing dog to stay within 20 yards? At 20 yards you are already where the bird is. I do not get it other than just to retrieve the dead bird or just companionship.

You need to go and see a good working grouse dog. This fall go to a NAVHDA event or a Wild Grouse trial in August in NH. You will learn a lot and your perceptions will change.
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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