Blue Picardy Spaniel

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Dakotazeb
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Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by Dakotazeb » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:14 pm

Has anyone seen or know much about this breed. I have been in touch with a gentleman in the Calgary, Canada area this is involved with the breed. Just wondering if anyone in the states is familiar with them. Thanks.
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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by CDN_Cocker » Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:31 am

Pretty rare... could be a reason for that. However, if its a spaniel it has my approval, even if it does point... :roll:

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by Runningdog » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:40 am

Hello Cheindog.. :D

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by Dakotazeb » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:45 am

Runningdog wrote:Hello Cheindog.. :D
I've read Craig's posts about the Blue Picardy on the versatiledogs.com web site. I've read a lot about the breed and like very much what I've read. Just thought I'd pose the question on this site to see if anyone has had any direct experience with a Blue Picardy.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by NEhomer » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:46 am

Beautiful dog....looks like a setter.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by Dakotazeb » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:07 am

Lot of both English and Gordon setter blood in them. Here's some info I copied from another site.

ORIGIN AND PURPOSE
Also known as the Epagneul Bleu de Picardie or Long-legged Spaniel, the Blue Picardy Spaniel is a French pointing dog.
Towards the end of the nineteenth century, hunters and dogs from Great Britain crossed the English Channel to hunt in France. The Picardie marshes and Brittany’s sandy moors became the favourite hunting grounds of many setter and spaniel owners. When the British quarantine was implemented (effectively prohibiting the re-entry of their dogs into Great Britain), many hunters boarded their setters on Picardie farms. Consequently, the Picard Spaniels were crossed with Gordon and blue Belton English Setters and the Blue Picardy Spaniel was the result.
Based on it's coat and skin colouring, it was established as a separate breed in 1935. The dog is excellent in water, possesses a good nose and loves to point and will retrieve game. He hunts almost instinctively, with an untiring attitude and is able to travel great distances at a steady pace.

GENERAL APPEARANCE
The Blue Picardy Spaniel has a distinctive look with a royal appearance. It is a muscular dog, weighing in between 55 to 65 lbs and growing to a height of 22-24 inches making it one of the larger/taller spaniels in the Sporting Group.
Visually, he is a completely balanced dog, with the body slightly longer than it is tall. He stands well up at the shoulder on straight forelegs with a top-line sloping slightly toward strong, muscular quarters with a slightly curved tail falling off the croup.
The head is cleanly chiselled and refined, with a moderate stop. The face is very expressive with eyes that are dark, large, and wide.
He is a dog capable of considerable speed, combined with great endurance. In action show a keen inclination to work and loves to retrieve and set for game in any type of weather. In between hunts, it only needs moderate exercise requirements.
Easily trained, kind, willing and very adaptable, the Blue Picardy make wonderful companions as they are always eager to please their owners and love attention.

SIZE
The ideal height at the withers for an adult dog is 22-24 inches, while an adult female may be slightly smaller. Weight ranges from 55-65 lbs.

COAT
On the head, short and fine; on the body, thick and flat or slightly wavy medium length hair with a slightly coarse texture. The ears, chest, tail, front legs and back legs from the hock down are feathered.
The Blue Picardy also possess skin that has a blue shade rather than the brown pigmentation found in other gundog breeds.

COLOUR
The distinctive "blueish" coat is roan in nature, made up of white, grey & black hair with solid black patches of various sizes. Roaning ranges in shades from blue-grey to blue black to almost black. The puppies are born white with black patches and the roaning colour develops as they mature.
Very large solid white patches are not desired.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by 41magsnub » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:33 am

Never heard of them. Pretty dogs though!

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by aulrich » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:03 am

I have run into a few of that gentleman's dogs over the years, but only in pet dog mode at the park, nice dogs. The owners commented that they were pleased with the hunting skills. And as vague as this is the dogs seemed well wired.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by ohmymy111 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:13 am

I have thought about getting an Epagneul Bleu de Picardie in the past. They are pretty rare, but an interesting dog. Their range is what concerns me, as I don't think they could keep up with my Epagneul Breton's. I may still look for a breeding pair at some point in the future, as I love the "blue" coat, and have had a couple of Breton's with a similar roan coat. Good luck, and if you get one I would be very interested to hear your take on them.'

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by chiendog » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:38 pm

I can add a few thoughts to what I've written on my blog. Here is the original post (basically just a portion of the chapter on the breed in my book). http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.ca/2012 ... el_17.html

And here are a few more details.

1. There are two versions of the Picardy Spaniel, they were split into separate (but quite similar) breeds based mainly on coat color. Personally, I prefer the Picardy Spaniel. It is tricoloured, brown/grey roan with tan points. They are very handsome (to me) dogs and good hunters. Here is my blog post on them http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.ca/2012 ... el_12.html The Blue Picardy is also a handsome dog and most (but not all) are good hunters.

2. The popularity of the Blue has surged over the last 20 years or so mainly due to a few breeders really promoting the breed in France, but not necessarily to hunters. Take that for what it is worth, but to me, it means you have to be a bit more careful now to find a breeder who hunts and trials/tests his stock.

3. There are some really good Blues in France. The ones I saw in Canada when I interviewed their breeder near Calgary years ago were very nice as well, but I am not sure how active the breeder is anymore. If he is still active, hunting and testing, my guess is that he still has good dogs. The top breeders in France are producing some really good hunting blues and doing quite well in trials.

4. The Blue has received more injections of setter blood over the years than the Picardy. But both are basically French versions of the English setter (which is basically a modernized, English version of French setting dogs from the 17th century). That said, their water work and retrieving instinct tend to be more pronounced than that of many setters. The Picardy in particular is known as a very strong water worker and is, in my view, the French breed that would probably do best in NAVHDA and other testing systems. Both are fast running, medium range dogs, some are pretty big running. If you want a really, really big runner, you may be able to find it, but you need to deal only with breeders that run their dogs in spring field trials (there are only one or two such breeders around) Both breeds have solid points, good noses and are relatively easy to train. Neither is known for being a 'hardheaded' breed, but they can deal with a good amount of pressure, especially the Picardy since they come from a region in France where hunting requires tougher type dogs to dig through cover, work in water, yet be able to stretch out in the open fields.

5. If anyone is serious about getting a Blue or a Picardy, drop me a pm. I will be happy to help you make contact with breeders in France. I helped a fellow in Quebec get a Picardy last year and will probably import one for myself in a year or three.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by Dakotazeb » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:17 pm

ohmymy111 wrote:I have thought about getting an Epagneul Bleu de Picardie in the past. They are pretty rare, but an interesting dog. Their range is what concerns me, as I don't think they could keep up with my Epagneul Breton's. I may still look for a breeding pair at some point in the future, as I love the "blue" coat, and have had a couple of Breton's with a similar roan coat. Good luck, and if you get one I would be very interested to hear your take on them.'
French Britts aren't known as very big ranging dogs. My guess is the Blue Picardy would have more range and speed. Remember the Blue Picardy has a lot of setter blood in them. I'm sure cheindog could shed some light on this.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by chiendog » Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:17 pm

"French Brits" come in a wide variety of types (and colours). Yes, many are closer to medium range dogs. But I saw some in France (and in Italy) that are basically dot-on-the-horizon runners that run just as big as any big running American style Brit. Same thing with the Blue Picardy....but with a WAY smaller gene pool. There are more than 10 thousand Epagneul Bretons whelped in just France + Italy each year (and a few thousand more across the rest of Europe) so their gene pool is huge. Compare that to maybe a couple hundred Blue Picardies per year, 99.9% of which are in France. The gene pool is way, way smaller. So that makes finding a big runner harder...but not impossible.

As for the amount of setter blood in them, it is widely acknowledged and openly admitted that setters were crossed into Picardy Spaniel lines in the early 1900s. But what is not mentioned as often is that setter was used much more recently and is in fact being injected into some lines even today. So you really have to know your lines and breeders and do a bit of digging to get what you want. If you want a dog with just a wee bit of an english accent, you can find one, if you want a dog that is probably 1/4 or even 1/2 setter, you can find one as well. The French are very 'creative' when it comes to breeding pointing dogs. That is why they have created more breeds of pointing dogs than any other country/culture! :)

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by Dakotazeb » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:11 pm

chiendog wrote: 5. If anyone is serious about getting a Blue or a Picardy, drop me a pm. I will be happy to help you make contact with breeders in France. I helped a fellow in Quebec get a Picardy last year and will probably import one for myself in a year or three.
I might have to take you up on that some day. One thing that is disturbing to me is that both Brighthope Kennels in Ontario and Sweetwater Kennels in California seen to be pushing the Blue Picardys as family pets on their web sites. Just another sporting breed that will likely get the hunt bred out of them. Alexcyril Kennels in Alberta seems to be more into the sporting and hunting lines. I've been in contact with Vince Aiello in the Calgary area that is working with Alexcyril (Don Fath) to bring in some more lines from France.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by ohmymy111 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:45 pm

My dogs certainly don't range as big as an English Pointer or a Setter, and neither should they. But they will range out up to a 1/4 mile. The close working dog is a mystique brought about by some of the breeders in the US. Pretty much all of mine will range as big as any of the other Continental breeds. It has been a number of years since I brought a dog to France to compete, but the EB's I saw there and mine ran with any other breed.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by Dakotazeb » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:08 pm

ohmymy111 wrote:My dogs certainly don't range as big as an English Pointer or a Setter, and neither should they. But they will range out up to a 1/4 mile. The close working dog is a mystique brought about by some of the breeders in the US. Pretty much all of mine will range as big as any of the other Continental breeds. It has been a number of years since I brought a dog to France to compete, but the EB's I saw there and mine ran with any other breed.
Hi Mark, just finally figured out who ohmymy was! Haven't seen you at any NSTRA trials lately??

George Eberle

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by ohmymy111 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:41 pm

Hey George,

I was planning on running some this Spring, but they coincided with some UKC Trials that I run in. I want to start running more of them, just have to see how the timing works out.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by Dakotazeb » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:47 pm

Mark, how far have you looked into the Blue Picardy? I would also consider a Picardy Spaniel. Which ever breed, I would want one that ran pretty big. Both for the upland bird hunting that I do plus I'd love to try running them in NSTRA. It would be interesting to show up at a trial with one of the Picardys and see the look on everyone's face. You've been to France and purchased dogs. Is there ever a chance to buy a started dog from over there?

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by chiendog » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:03 pm

Is there ever a chance to buy a started dog from over there?
From my experience, if you want a Brittany (épagneul breton), GSP, setter, or pointer, the answer is yes. It would not take a ton of work to find a started dog in those breeds. If you want any other breed like a Picardy etc. the answer is "yes, every million years or so, a started dog may be available". I could be wrong, but from all the inquiries I've made and connections I have, I've come to the conclusion that finding a started dog from one of the less common French breeds in France is not an easy thing to do. And for some, it is pretty much impossible.
Last edited by chiendog on Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by ohmymy111 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:03 pm

George,

To get a started dog from France would most likely be pretty darn expensive. In addition unless you go get it, you typically have to pay an exporter to ship the dog over, and that can get quite pricey as well. All of it is doable, but the cost will be pretty high.

Will a breeder sell you a started dog? Hard to know. The problem with buying a started dog for me, is I have to ask why are they willing or wanting to sell it. Breeders usually don't sell a good dog, as they want it for breeding.

I would talk to Craig, he is going to have the contacts for these dogs that I don't have. But I will check with a couple of French Field Trial Judges that I know, and see if they know of some breeders that trial. The Judges will give you the best take on the run and hunt of the dogs from different breeders over there.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by Dakotazeb » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:08 pm

I was just wondering. Are their any breeders of the Picardy Spaniel in North America?

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by ohmymy111 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:19 pm

I have never heard of one over here. And I don't know of and Bleu breeders except in Canada, Your best bet would try and find a breeder in France and strike up a conversation with them. Just a word of caution, the French can be a little touchy about their dogs coming to the US. My experience with good reputable breeders in France is they can be touchy about their dogs going to the US. They take great pride in what they do, as well they should, and many have had less than desirable dealings with people in the US. They think we are pushy, true, and don't take kindly to that. So start out a little slowly, translate emails into French, and be patient.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by chiendog » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:26 pm

Sure, $$ will figure into it. But the bottom line, as far as I can tell, is that with breeds like the Picardy and Blue (and just about every other French pointing breed other than the Breton), you are dealing with a mere handful of breeders. And among them, only two or three are hard core hunter/trialer/breeders that focus on producing world class dogs. Can you get a pup with a ton of potential from them? Probably. Can you get a 'started' dog with ton of potential from them? Yes, every 100 years.

That said, my offer still stands. I am more than willing to help any hunter with a sincere interest connect with top breeders of Picardy or Blue Picardy spaniels in France. I am in contact with a few of them on a weekly basis (thank you Facebook!) and can help with English/French language issues, logistics and anything else needed. I've said it before and I will say it again, the Picardy breeds have a LOT to offer many North American hunters and in my view would be warmly received over here....if they are introduced properly.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by ohmymy111 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:32 pm

George, I would certainly take Craig up on his offer. He will have the contacts that lead you to the dog you are looking for.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by Dakotazeb » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:43 am

Thanks so much for your relies, information and advice. I appreciate it very much. I'm probably a few years away from obtaining another dog but it's never too early to start the search. In the past the quest has almost been as much fun as actually getting the pup. I plan to stay in touch with Vince Aiello in Calgary. The following is part of an email I received from Vince.
We are in fact working on a rejuvenation of the breed in North America. We are looking at bringing in a total of 5 new pups from France from different lines to work with our other partner and breeder in Ontario. My first female arrives from France May 22nd, The first male is due in June and the others are future breeding’s. So our breeding program is still a couple years away.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by chiendog » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:09 am

Vince Aiello has good contacts in France. The dogs he is bringing in are from top lines and will hopefully produce excellent pups that will be good ambassadors for the breed. One advantage that the Blue Picardy has over the Picardy is that the Blue is recognized by the CKC so it can compete in various CKC sanctioned events like trials and tests. Of course that also means the door is open to show-only breeders to get into the breed, but so far, that has not been a huge problem....yet. The Picardy is not recognized by the CKC, but can compete in NAVHDA, VHDF etc. tests and probably in AF and NSTRA trials as well.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by ohmymy111 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:18 am

In the US both are recognized by the United Kennel Club, UKC.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by chiendog » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:23 am

Thanks! I forgot about the UKC. Their field trial format for pointing dogs is based on the way trials are run in France, so that would be a great option for anyone with a French pointing breed in the US. The UKC also recognizes NSTRA titles, so I guess a Blue or Picardy registered with the UKC could run in NSTRA trials as well.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by ohmymy111 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:50 am

Absolutely they can, and George runs NSTRA.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by MNTonester » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:32 am

a beautiful looking dog

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by RyanDoolittle » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:17 pm

IMO you could buy a much better dog in a different breed with alot less headache in the long run.

Ive spent the last 2 years watching one. Beautiful dog when run off horseback but not my cup of tea when walking or on point.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by chiendog » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:48 pm

Sure, of course you could. And the same could be said for shotguns, cars, wine, whiskey, women etc. if all our choices were based on sheer utility and budget. But the world would be a boring place if everyone had the same needs, wants and tastes. And it would be even more boring if no one was willing to risk a headache or two to get something they really wanted (for whatever reason). Just last night I enjoyed a fantastic glass of scotch that was so peaty, it would make most people puke. And I payed a stiff price to purchase it. Regrets? None. It was freakin awesome!

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by Dakotazeb » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:57 pm

chiendog wrote:Sure, of course you could. And the same could be said for shotguns, cars, wine, whiskey, women etc. if all our choices were based on sheer utility and budget. But the world would be a boring place if everyone had the same needs, wants and tastes. And it would be even more boring if no one was willing to risk a headache or two to get something they really wanted (for whatever reason). Just last night I enjoyed a fantastic glass of scotch that was so peaty, it would make most people puke. And I payed a stiff price to purchase it. Regrets? None. It was freakin awesome!
Couldn't agree more. It's also sometimes about having something different. Not something everyone else has. It would be easy for me to go buy another Brittany, and I might. And I know a person that has some awesome Small Munsterlanders. If and when I do get another dog it will likely be my last seeing that I'm 69 right now. So I want to "kick a few tires" before I make that decision.

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Re: Blue Picardy Spaniel

Post by wooduckschumck » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:25 pm

Here is a picture of our Blue Picardy at 10 weeks. We got him from the only breeder I know of in the US, who is located in Petaluma, CA. We were not looking for a Blue Picardy, and were seriously considering a Large Munsterlander (which I still love and may need one of those as well). We ran across the Blue Picardy breeder, and she is only 20 minutes away from us, so we decided to go check her dogs out. We fell in love with her dogs, she put us in contact with some hunters she has sold previous puppies to, and they seemed quite happy with them. Not hard charging hunting machines like a GSP or wirehair, but effective and steady on grouse, quail and pheasant.

Our breeder does not specifically breed for hunting, so I knew I was rolling the dice going into it. However, we told her what we wanted to use the dog for, and she picked the birdiest, fittest, best suited pup for us, and he is looking great. Hard points, loves retrieving, loves water already, and biddable. What I am happiest about thus far is his desire to search cover hard. I take him out in the marsh and in fields, and he is insatiable in cover at 11 weeks. I'm thinking of doing the NAVHDA Natural Abilities test with him, so we will see how that goes.

She is a really small operation, and Blue Picardies seem to throw small litters, so she is not producing a lot of puppies. Last I heard, she has a waitlist of 25+ and I believe is currently only breeding one bitch, maybe two. This is her site: http://www.bluepicardies.com/www.bluepi ... lcome.html

If we end up interested in getting a second, we may go the import route as well.

Also, some how I missed that you mentioned the breeder in one of these threads- Sweetwater Blue Picardies. I share your sentiment about breeding focused on companions, and not hunting. For us, we are not die hard bird hunters, and it didn't seem like a big risk- if the dog doesn't hunt, its not the end of the world. I can totally understand that someone who is really set on getting a solid gun dog would not and should not take that risk and should get a dog from a breeder who has proven hunting lines. That being said, our dogs lines come from a Don Fath bred Canadian dog (sire) and a french dog from proven hunting lines (dam).
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