Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
- QuailHollow
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Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Hey all;
I am working an English Pointer I am really fond of. He just turned 2 years old and I acquired him as a young adult dog. He was given to me because the original owner knows that we are hunters and knew the dog was birdy, but does not have the desire to work the dog himself. Since then, I've been trying to gear him up to be my own personal gun dog. .. but I need some advice. Here is what I know:
The dog's pedigree is 1/2 Italian import and 1/2 NZ import. Apparently the Italian side (sire) of the pedigree is strong for hunting and field trailing. The other is all beauty.
He has desire for birds and he will stand for ages if you let him. He even points inanimate objects that 'look' like birds. He is mostly unconcerned by everything I do with him. Stores, kennels, dog shows... nothing seems to phase him. He is submissive when necessary, and does not ever argue with my other males.
Last year we started working him on quail / pigeons and a starter pistol, and it went really well. That season we took him out with my already 'seasoned' male. He kept up fine, but just seemed to be running around. He wasn't hunting, but I expected that. He just had no idea why he was there, but he was having fun. My husband is an excellent shot, and assured me that if 1 shot didn't bring down the bird, he wouldn't shoot it. So we made the mistake last year of thinking he was bold enough to hunt him. My seasoned male pointed, I brought my dog over to watch the flush - the chase ensued, and my husband let out a single shot bringing down the bird. That shot rattled him a bit and knocked him off the chase.
Afterwards we continued on and continued to hunt. We found more birds, and my husband fired more shots. By lunch time he was trying to crawl up my backside. I took him home and figured he was gun shy. My husband said he is a dud.
I haven't given up though. I continue to work him at home and at the hunt club. Anytime I got the dogs all excited to go for a run back in the woods, I'd open the pen run and fire the blank pistol as they ran off. If I had them out in the woods with the ATV, I'd randomly fire my gun while he was out of eyesight.. I worked him again and again with the blank pistol and eventually signed him up for 4 Junior hunt tests. The first day was awesome, he was one of the only dogs to qualify in Junior, and I was so proud. No reaction to the pistol. The remaining 3 tests did not quite go as well. The next run my fellow bracemate had a whistle that he was really hammering on, and I don't use one.. so my dog got upset about it. I picked him up and put him away. The other 2 tests he did well on, but was bumbling around and didn't point a bird until my time was up.. by then it was too late to qualify and he was giving me trouble catching him.
At this point I decided to quell my husband's bantering about the dog by taking him to a friend and having a clear evaluation done with gun fire. The result was great. Multiple shots (4 or 5 in a row), shots fired right on top of him.. No effect.. It was suggested that the dog may have too much stand, but he certainly wasn't gun shy. I am entered in a Junior Test next week, so I want to be sure he's ready to do this. Any tips?
I think he has bonded with me much more now than before. There is more trust. Additionally, he is a mature male now and no longer a pup. Is there any hope?
I am working an English Pointer I am really fond of. He just turned 2 years old and I acquired him as a young adult dog. He was given to me because the original owner knows that we are hunters and knew the dog was birdy, but does not have the desire to work the dog himself. Since then, I've been trying to gear him up to be my own personal gun dog. .. but I need some advice. Here is what I know:
The dog's pedigree is 1/2 Italian import and 1/2 NZ import. Apparently the Italian side (sire) of the pedigree is strong for hunting and field trailing. The other is all beauty.
He has desire for birds and he will stand for ages if you let him. He even points inanimate objects that 'look' like birds. He is mostly unconcerned by everything I do with him. Stores, kennels, dog shows... nothing seems to phase him. He is submissive when necessary, and does not ever argue with my other males.
Last year we started working him on quail / pigeons and a starter pistol, and it went really well. That season we took him out with my already 'seasoned' male. He kept up fine, but just seemed to be running around. He wasn't hunting, but I expected that. He just had no idea why he was there, but he was having fun. My husband is an excellent shot, and assured me that if 1 shot didn't bring down the bird, he wouldn't shoot it. So we made the mistake last year of thinking he was bold enough to hunt him. My seasoned male pointed, I brought my dog over to watch the flush - the chase ensued, and my husband let out a single shot bringing down the bird. That shot rattled him a bit and knocked him off the chase.
Afterwards we continued on and continued to hunt. We found more birds, and my husband fired more shots. By lunch time he was trying to crawl up my backside. I took him home and figured he was gun shy. My husband said he is a dud.
I haven't given up though. I continue to work him at home and at the hunt club. Anytime I got the dogs all excited to go for a run back in the woods, I'd open the pen run and fire the blank pistol as they ran off. If I had them out in the woods with the ATV, I'd randomly fire my gun while he was out of eyesight.. I worked him again and again with the blank pistol and eventually signed him up for 4 Junior hunt tests. The first day was awesome, he was one of the only dogs to qualify in Junior, and I was so proud. No reaction to the pistol. The remaining 3 tests did not quite go as well. The next run my fellow bracemate had a whistle that he was really hammering on, and I don't use one.. so my dog got upset about it. I picked him up and put him away. The other 2 tests he did well on, but was bumbling around and didn't point a bird until my time was up.. by then it was too late to qualify and he was giving me trouble catching him.
At this point I decided to quell my husband's bantering about the dog by taking him to a friend and having a clear evaluation done with gun fire. The result was great. Multiple shots (4 or 5 in a row), shots fired right on top of him.. No effect.. It was suggested that the dog may have too much stand, but he certainly wasn't gun shy. I am entered in a Junior Test next week, so I want to be sure he's ready to do this. Any tips?
I think he has bonded with me much more now than before. There is more trust. Additionally, he is a mature male now and no longer a pup. Is there any hope?
Last edited by QuailHollow on Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
In the beginning of the video, before the dog points, is that how far the dog ranges?
- QuailHollow
- Rank: Senior Hunter
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- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:21 am
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
No, he ranges about 30 to 40 yards or so. More when you fire him up. He seldom ranges out of eyesight. This was the end of the training, and he is smart to the bird bag. I carry one and sometimes would pull out a bird and showing it to him, then releasing it. .. so he sees bird bag and anticipates a flush from it.. my fault. Fortunately we don't carry one in the Junior stakes.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Lead vitamins do dogs like that a lot of good. It helps tremendously with whoa, stay, sit, and lay down.
Chris E. Kroll
CEK Kennels
http://www.cekkennels.com
785-288-0461
Governments govern best when governments governs least
-Thomas Paine
CEK Kennels
http://www.cekkennels.com
785-288-0461
Governments govern best when governments governs least
-Thomas Paine
- QuailHollow
- Rank: Senior Hunter
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- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:21 am
- Location: South Central Penn.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Noted, but,.. I don't want to shoot him. lol. He is a nice pet, after all.topher40 wrote:Lead vitamins do dogs like that a lot of good. It helps tremendously with whoa, stay, sit, and lay down.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
I never said shoot him........ Just to give him vitamins.
Chris E. Kroll
CEK Kennels
http://www.cekkennels.com
785-288-0461
Governments govern best when governments governs least
-Thomas Paine
CEK Kennels
http://www.cekkennels.com
785-288-0461
Governments govern best when governments governs least
-Thomas Paine
- QuailHollow
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:21 am
- Location: South Central Penn.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
<sigh> ... what a bummer.topher40 wrote:I never said shoot him........ Just to give him vitamins.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
You wanted an honest opinion of what we were able to see from that video, save your money, I wouldnt feed that "animal" anything other than vitamins. Surely he needs more than a trainer.
Chris E. Kroll
CEK Kennels
http://www.cekkennels.com
785-288-0461
Governments govern best when governments governs least
-Thomas Paine
CEK Kennels
http://www.cekkennels.com
785-288-0461
Governments govern best when governments governs least
-Thomas Paine
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
I really don't like posting training advice, cause I'm just a grasshoppa myself. So please take my opinion for just that.
He was definitely too attentive in the clip and obviously not ranging at all, looking up at the handler all the time, possibly because of the bird bag. If that's the case, I'd lose the bag in a heartbeat. If it's an independance issue, I'd work on that first, before combining birds. I'd try to get the birds into better cover. There's no need to have them walking out in the open so easily, unless you're proofing a dog for advanced testing/trialing. I'm not saying knee high thick stuff, but enough so that a walking quail won't be easy to see or get far, or put the bird down harder. He doesn't need the challenge of tracking a bird or old scent at this point either.
I was trying to figure the setup out a little bit on the video, because when the dog makes the 1st pass in heeling position, he's on the right side of the bird's location and makes no acknowledgment. Then he's brought around to the left of the bird and appears to have winded it, resulting in a point, in what I would now assume is downwind. I'm thinking he's probably pointing the hotspot of where the bird was planted originally. So I'm wondering which way the scent cone was and why the circle around? Did you lose track of the bird after planting or why that first pass and why so close to the bird? Sorry if I misinterpreted. Please don't take this wrong, because that is not my intention, but I felt like I was watching some handler errors. I wouldn't encourage the finding of birds from the heel position, or you may end up with exactly how you trained. He'll sit back and trust you to take him to the birds. If he wasn't ranging, we wouldn't head towards the bird and work it. I also wonder if a dog that doesn't range well, shouldn't be worked in a more open environment than timber, but IDK as I've never had range issues. If he truly missed scenting the bird the first time, I wouldn't immediately bring him right back into it either, and I don't circle birds like that. Go on to work another and bring him back, or at least go off a good bit.
He obviously has some nose, point, and desire to chase. So it would seem there's something to work with if he pleases you and you want to put the effort in. My biggest issue with your video is the independance and search drive he's not displaying.
He was definitely too attentive in the clip and obviously not ranging at all, looking up at the handler all the time, possibly because of the bird bag. If that's the case, I'd lose the bag in a heartbeat. If it's an independance issue, I'd work on that first, before combining birds. I'd try to get the birds into better cover. There's no need to have them walking out in the open so easily, unless you're proofing a dog for advanced testing/trialing. I'm not saying knee high thick stuff, but enough so that a walking quail won't be easy to see or get far, or put the bird down harder. He doesn't need the challenge of tracking a bird or old scent at this point either.
I was trying to figure the setup out a little bit on the video, because when the dog makes the 1st pass in heeling position, he's on the right side of the bird's location and makes no acknowledgment. Then he's brought around to the left of the bird and appears to have winded it, resulting in a point, in what I would now assume is downwind. I'm thinking he's probably pointing the hotspot of where the bird was planted originally. So I'm wondering which way the scent cone was and why the circle around? Did you lose track of the bird after planting or why that first pass and why so close to the bird? Sorry if I misinterpreted. Please don't take this wrong, because that is not my intention, but I felt like I was watching some handler errors. I wouldn't encourage the finding of birds from the heel position, or you may end up with exactly how you trained. He'll sit back and trust you to take him to the birds. If he wasn't ranging, we wouldn't head towards the bird and work it. I also wonder if a dog that doesn't range well, shouldn't be worked in a more open environment than timber, but IDK as I've never had range issues. If he truly missed scenting the bird the first time, I wouldn't immediately bring him right back into it either, and I don't circle birds like that. Go on to work another and bring him back, or at least go off a good bit.
He obviously has some nose, point, and desire to chase. So it would seem there's something to work with if he pleases you and you want to put the effort in. My biggest issue with your video is the independance and search drive he's not displaying.
- QuailHollow
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
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Last edited by QuailHollow on Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
There is no need to run the dog in any tests. You need to get the dog loving birds and introduce the gun properly. If not, good pointers can be had for around $400.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
I would not put any more time, effort, energy in to this dog as a hunting dog. I would keep him if I wanted a pet, or find him a pet home. You would be way ahead if you just started over with a well bred pup. Is that a 'maple farm' your training in?
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
That could make a nice little dog to enjoy running in hunt tests and as a personal gundog. He has a lot of point, seems like good scenting ability, and he is responsive to you. But it looks to me as if he has been hammered as to handling and obedience. If it were my call, I'd put birds out before releasing him, and allow him a ton of independence rather than standing around getting in his way. Let him figure things out, don't keep guiding him into birds. It's difficult this time of year, but find somewhere with more cover to discourage any sight pointing and to encourage him to use his nose and brains. I'd also stop messing with gunfire for a while, because it seems if you continue on this particular track, your train will derail shortly.
It seems to me some major beginner trainer focus is control control control and gunfire gunfire gunfire. Give it up and allow the dog to develop.
It seems to me some major beginner trainer focus is control control control and gunfire gunfire gunfire. Give it up and allow the dog to develop.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Quail Hollow Kennels? Is your expertise in breeding and conformation? Do you actually train bird dogs professionally or is it just a hobby or byproduct of the breeding program?
When the dog locked up by the tree, I (the handler) would have been standing on a checkcord while you (the helper/videographer flushed and shot the bird.
I would never never ever shoot around a dog I suspected had gun issues in standing timber, it magnifies the sound.
+1wems2371 wrote:Please don't take this wrong, because that is not my intention, but I felt like I was watching some handler errors.
When the dog locked up by the tree, I (the handler) would have been standing on a checkcord while you (the helper/videographer flushed and shot the bird.
I would never never ever shoot around a dog I suspected had gun issues in standing timber, it magnifies the sound.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Ooops, posted before I was done. Sorry. I am confused by your use of the whistle, if that is what it was. A whistle command should be given with the same authority as a voice command.
Did you really want him to sight-point the bird?
Did you really want him to sight-point the bird?
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
No gunfire until he is very excited about birds and then introduce it properly.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Dog looks too concerned about silly stuff - you, the birdbag, etc. Could be because the dog doesn't 'have it', or because of training errors. No way for me to figure out which one.
Either way, as Sharon said - no guns, more birds. The dog needs to be more excited about the job.
Either way, as Sharon said - no guns, more birds. The dog needs to be more excited about the job.
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DC AFC Valley Hunter's Southern Comfort CD MH NA NAJ, UT Prize II, "Shooter"
DC GCH Lagniappe's Chosen One MH, "Buffy"
DC AFC SoCo's Enchanted One JH, "TomBoy"
CH SoCo's Independence Day SH, "Patriot"
SoCo's Twist of Fate JH, "Emma Jane"
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
I see what shags sees. Plus a dog that is at minimum under-exercised and probably over fed. He needs to get some air blowing through his ears...shags wrote:That could make a nice little dog to enjoy running in hunt tests and as a personal gundog. He has a lot of point, seems like good scenting ability, and he is responsive to you. But it looks to me as if he has been hammered as to handling and obedience. If it were my call, I'd put birds out before releasing him, and allow him a ton of independence rather than standing around getting in his way. Let him figure things out, don't keep guiding him into birds. It's difficult this time of year, but find somewhere with more cover to discourage any sight pointing and to encourage him to use his nose and brains. I'd also stop messing with gunfire for a while, because it seems if you continue on this particular track, your train will derail shortly.
It seems to me some major beginner trainer focus is control control control and gunfire gunfire gunfire. Give it up and allow the dog to develop.
- RoostersMom
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Your dog is clearly not field bred. No judgement - just the facts. I like the looks of the bench bred pointers. However, I would rather have a FDSB pointer that is bred to hunt - but that's because I hunt birds 50+ days of the year and play dog hunting games for a big part of the rest of the year. I've taken rescues and done the JH testing because I enjoy doing it. That type of testing does not show me that the dog has hunting ability really at all. I do HT's because I enjoy them - much more at the MH level than in the JH though - it just doesn't mean anything to me that a dog has his JH title. Not even that he's "interested" in birds since he can even flash point and pass the test.
As for your good looking boy - I would second the suggestions that you'll want to run him in some real cover (grass or shrubs)...get him out in front of you so that he is not even checking back with you - get him out there hunting on his own - don't "overhandle" him (I tend to do that myself!) - let him get out there and find birds out in front of you - I wouldn't call him back in to you and let him find birds around you at this point. Let him find birds "out there in the great wide wilderness." Your few situations you've shown have seemed very controlled and he's being very obedient - I'd throw that all out the door and let him get out there and find his wheels and get away from "training situations" per say. Make the runs all about him finding birds out there ahead of you and letting him stretch out some. He has a lot of point - but it looks like he's wanting to sight point a lot and also wants to find birds right there on top of you. Leave the bird bag in the truck. Plant pigeons or quail way out there and skip the gun.
Just my two cents.
As for your good looking boy - I would second the suggestions that you'll want to run him in some real cover (grass or shrubs)...get him out in front of you so that he is not even checking back with you - get him out there hunting on his own - don't "overhandle" him (I tend to do that myself!) - let him get out there and find birds out in front of you - I wouldn't call him back in to you and let him find birds around you at this point. Let him find birds "out there in the great wide wilderness." Your few situations you've shown have seemed very controlled and he's being very obedient - I'd throw that all out the door and let him get out there and find his wheels and get away from "training situations" per say. Make the runs all about him finding birds out there ahead of you and letting him stretch out some. He has a lot of point - but it looks like he's wanting to sight point a lot and also wants to find birds right there on top of you. Leave the bird bag in the truck. Plant pigeons or quail way out there and skip the gun.
Just my two cents.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
I would bring your dog to a professional trainer and see what they thought after a month.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
What I saw in those film clips was too much handler and not enough "dog." I'd keep my mouth shut and stick the whistle somewhere rude until the dog did the work and not me.
Bill T.
Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Anybody else thinking that post may have been intended to drive traffice to their youtube and website?
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Nope...because it wouldn't be doing their business much help.whoadog wrote:Anybody else thinking that post may have been intended to drive traffice to their youtube and website?
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
LOL!! Unless they are just trying to sell puppies.DogNewbie wrote:e...because it wouldn't be doing their business much help.
- RoostersMom
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Except that nothing in that youtube video would make most anyone on here want to buy one of the pups. That style of dog is not likely to be a representative that most on here would appreciate.whoadog wrote:LOL!! Unless they are just trying to sell puppies.DogNewbie wrote:e...because it wouldn't be doing their business much help.
- mountaindogs
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
I am guessing you took down the video. So I have not seen it so keep that in mind. I wish people would be helpful and not negative... and I think you did get some helpful posts and some very critical ones sounds like. What you describe regarding a birdbag I have seen after stop to flush drills which is why I try to keep that to as few sessions as possible. A dog needs to find birds ahead of you and they are very quick to start associating you with birds. That is a more advanced step though and I don't add it in until after I have an independent running dog looking in front and holding point until I arrive.
Plant birds on the ground and act as if you have no idea where they are. Try very little talking, no whistle, no shooting. Just fun. Good flying birds ( :roll: easier said than done sometimes) and happy timing teach dogs a lot. I have a video somewhere... I 'll try to find that shows pretty well how I start the you dogs. Might have 2 different dogs.
Plant birds on the ground and act as if you have no idea where they are. Try very little talking, no whistle, no shooting. Just fun. Good flying birds ( :roll: easier said than done sometimes) and happy timing teach dogs a lot. I have a video somewhere... I 'll try to find that shows pretty well how I start the you dogs. Might have 2 different dogs.
- roaniecowpony
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Since you sound like you're going to keep the dog no matter whether it hunts or not, you may as well give it a good chance to make a bird dog. If you have the desire, keep after it and follow some of the better advice about more birds, less guns and less handling. I'd do that until the dog either gets really excited to birds and going out to the field or you decide you aren't getting anywhere. That's what I'd do if I had the inclination to keep that dog. Good luck.
- roaniecowpony
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Since someone mentioned the possibility that the dog had been overhandled, this reminded me of a dog I saw this weekend at a hunt club. Nice enthusiastically friendly dog (lab) that loves to play with my lab. We both got our labs the same year and his was full of energy and good drive when it was young. Now, both 7 yrs old, mine has lots of drive, but the other guys would not hunt for the first half hour at the club this weekend, even after mine was finding birds over and over again right in front of the other dog. I kept wondering what was going on with the dog. Then I saw it. The owner got mad and was barking commands at her and the dog just dropped her head further. It finally ventured away from heel, but seemed like it was worried about being corrected. After what seemed like an eternity of slow plodding, the dog located a bird. Things looked only slightly better from then on, but they did improve. I never saw the dog run even when the dog was on a bird. Just no enthusiasm. Over the years, I'd seen the owner scold the dog for various reasons, most of which were his training faults. The guy has a temper. The dog is a lessor bird dog for it.
- mountaindogs
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Here are a few videos I have of early birdwork. Please, some of you, these were made for friends and owners and are not meant to be more than fun.
I only show them here to show a way of letting the dogs just have fun on birds the first times. I TRY to keep my mouth shut but sometimes I still forget
http://youtu.be/wlBSPjEb_Mc
http://youtu.be/u7dFATxzlCA
I only show them here to show a way of letting the dogs just have fun on birds the first times. I TRY to keep my mouth shut but sometimes I still forget
http://youtu.be/wlBSPjEb_Mc
http://youtu.be/u7dFATxzlCA
- QuailHollow
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
I got the answers I needed to hear. Thanks all!
- QuailHollow
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
So, I'm pulling this thread out of the archives just to say that since the original post in early April, I have worked on him - and *me*. I did run him in that hunt test and he shot off with his brace-mate and worked the field in a manner consistent with junior dog. He found birds, he pointed, I flushed them, he chased.. he passed. I have since taken him to field trials and staked him out all day.. he's also sat in the vehicle while we were at the hunt club and people were practicing on clay birds. He's come a long long way. We were at the GSP Club of OH field trial this weekend, and I wasn't sure if he'd be a melted mess or not when they did call-backs at the end of the stake. I went to watch and left him on the chain gang between two well seasoned dogs. He was just as happy to see me as they were when we got back.
We still have work to do. I have found he is repositioning on the bird when he scents it.. not busting them, but repositioning. He has a good nose, but he wants to sight point. Chris told me to start popping birds on him the instant he catches and turns. Going to give that a try. Oh, the other thing I noticed is he is starting to 'mark' when he hears gunfire now... not crawling up my backside. All in all, we are moving forward.
I also wanted to add - that I was never trying to *sell puppies* from my posting. For crying out loud, nobody here wants my 'show' dogs. I wanted advice. Some of you actually gave me some good tips to try. Thank you.
We still have work to do. I have found he is repositioning on the bird when he scents it.. not busting them, but repositioning. He has a good nose, but he wants to sight point. Chris told me to start popping birds on him the instant he catches and turns. Going to give that a try. Oh, the other thing I noticed is he is starting to 'mark' when he hears gunfire now... not crawling up my backside. All in all, we are moving forward.
I also wanted to add - that I was never trying to *sell puppies* from my posting. For crying out loud, nobody here wants my 'show' dogs. I wanted advice. Some of you actually gave me some good tips to try. Thank you.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Thanks for the update Good luck with continued progess
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
where is the video?
- QuailHollow
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
I trashed it months ago. People thought I was trying to sell pups, so I deleted it and removed the link.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Sounds like he is making some progress. Good to hear.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Glad you didn't give the dog "a vitamin" like a certain mod suggested.
- RoostersMom
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Glad to see that you're enjoying him. He is such a good looking boy! He'll just get better if he has any interest in birds, so keep it up.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
That was me. It was actually said tongue in cheek. I apologize if you were offended. Congrats on the progress.QuailHollow wrote:I trashed it months ago. People thought I was trying to sell pups, so I deleted it and removed the link.
- QuailHollow
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Hey, no hard feelings at all. Sometimes you have to make mistakes to learn.whoadog wrote:That was me. It was actually said tongue in cheek. I apologize if you were offended. Congrats on the progress.
- QuailHollow
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Ok, I'll repost the original link (p.s. not trying to sell pups - I'm trying to develop this dog) - To be clear, this is where he was in April:
http://youtu.be/uhZ8odAa-UA
After getting some great suggestions from trainers and friends, I stopped hacking or really talking to him, left the bird bag in the truck, and let him be himself. A suggestion I received, "Let the "bleep" bump and chase every bird he finds.". OK then .. he seems to be doing that pretty well now. <sigh> He is 2 years old. This is where he is now. (He is the dog with the bell. Ignore dog in pink collar. She's my house dog.):
http://youtu.be/NNCPA6XAjIQ
I have to take my daughter to the club with me. She was munching potato chips (gotta make it fun for her too...).
http://youtu.be/uhZ8odAa-UA
After getting some great suggestions from trainers and friends, I stopped hacking or really talking to him, left the bird bag in the truck, and let him be himself. A suggestion I received, "Let the "bleep" bump and chase every bird he finds.". OK then .. he seems to be doing that pretty well now. <sigh> He is 2 years old. This is where he is now. (He is the dog with the bell. Ignore dog in pink collar. She's my house dog.):
http://youtu.be/NNCPA6XAjIQ
I have to take my daughter to the club with me. She was munching potato chips (gotta make it fun for her too...).
- RoostersMom
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
What an improvement! Way to go.
- QuailHollow
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Thank you. I am not exactly happy that he's bumping birds.. but he's not catching them. Hasn't done so in over a year. We bumped this same bird 3 times, and then it crossed the creek to the cow pasture. On that note, I put him back in the truck.RoostersMom wrote:What an improvement! Way to go.
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Good job! Very impressive progress.QuailHollow wrote:Thank you. I am not exactly happy that he's bumping birds.. but he's not catching them. Hasn't done so in over a year. We bumped this same bird 3 times, and then it crossed the creek to the cow pasture. On that note, I put him back in the truck.
Steady him up Start like you would a puppy - checkcord etc. Just remember to keep quiet and don't nag.
If you are interested in competition or hunt testing, you ought not allow him to repoint ( or rebump as the case may be) the same bird. That will get you into trouble with delayed chase. Put out several birds in different areas for him when you want multiple contacts. Once the bird flushes, watch where it goes; work your other birds. Then if you need more contacts let him hunt a previous bird but take him in from a direction different from where the bird originally flushed.
Good luck with further training.
- QuailHollow
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
- shags; I am continuing to keep my mouth shut (except for bringing him away from the end of the field) and work him on birds. Did some yard work and took him back out. Doing a bit better. I will keep working on him, but, I hope to turn him into a nice foot hunting dog for myself. I carried my shotgun today, but I used my blank pistol. One bird went into the woods and the other was too low.shags wrote:Good job! Very impressive progress.
Steady him up Start like you would a puppy - checkcord etc. Just remember to keep quiet and don't nag.
If you are interested in competition or hunt testing, you ought not allow him to repoint ( or rebump as the case may be) the same bird. That will get you into trouble with delayed chase. Put out several birds in different areas for him when you want multiple contacts. Once the bird flushes, watch where it goes; work your other birds. Then if you need more contacts let him hunt a previous bird but take him in from a direction different from where the bird originally flushed.
Good luck with further training.
http://youtu.be/8QyvkdDB3X8
- QuailHollow
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
So, just to wrap this up, here is a photo of the first bird I have EVER shot... EVER! My dog held a beautiful point and never moved until the bird flushed. Upon other suggestions not to 'overwhelm' him, I only had one shell in the shotgun.
My husband says he doesn't believe me because nobody was there to see it! :roll:
My husband says he doesn't believe me because nobody was there to see it! :roll:
- QuailHollow
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Yesterday we went out with a group of 5 guys at trophy mountain hunt club. We used Marco as one of our finishing dogs on a guided hunt for Nick's birthday. We were out about 5 hours. The guys were happy to help us get Marco some more bird work and were willing to help train him, so I pulled him out of the crate and put him in the field. They bagged 25 birds, and I believe Marco found 7 of them. Mostly quail, but a few pheasants and chukar. Some were sitting directly out in the open. You could have stepped next to them and never known they were there. I am running him with a check cord and an ecollar right now, but not rushing anything. He apparently didn't see the bird fall, so he starts hunting the woods. duhhh.... :roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=griFxI2DniY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=griFxI2DniY
Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Thanks for the update. I'd missed this thread earlier, and really enjoyed hearing about the progress as you worked with your dog. Congrats also on your first bird!
It's awesome to see someone getting pulled into hunting through developing their dog, as well.
It's awesome to see someone getting pulled into hunting through developing their dog, as well.
- birddogger
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Congrats on being patient and your tenacity! Many would have given up a long time ago. Sticking with a real challenge and getting over the hump and starting to see things coming together and potentially serious problems being overcome is the most rewarding thing there could be for a gun dog owner/trainer! The experience you are getting with this dog is invaluable. I have great respect for what you have accomplished so far and know you will continue to a finished product.
It also shows that there is a lot of help, support and knowledge on this board, there for the asking.
Charlie
It also shows that there is a lot of help, support and knowledge on this board, there for the asking.
Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way
- mountaindogs
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
FWI - it's not uncommon for dogs going through steadying to miss marks. You can see what happens pretty clearly. They dog breaks before getting a great mark, expecting to see the bird flying/falling, then spins on the CC when they can't go, and then loses the mark. No worries there. If they are restrained from chasing, they usually discover that waiting and marking the bird is advantageous and soon self steady more. In my experience anyway. Lovely dog and nice to see success!
- QuailHollow
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Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Thanks everyone. I'm pretty happy with his progress, and mine. We still have a long way to go. He had been put up for a while because the last time wasn't pretty. Back in late Nov or early Dec my father-in-law and I had pulled into the game lands for Pheasant hunting. We had 2 dogs in the back of the truck, and realized the game commission was there stocking. We waited until they were done and gone, let the dog out, and... what looked like bowling for birds ensued. What should have been a 10 minute bird-in-bag limit turned into a face palming embarrassing episode with a bird drunk Pointer and my father-in-law yelling STRIKE! I put him up and we set out with a dog that wasn't acting like a kid who just had a coke and a candy bar.
I certainly understand why someone wouldn't want to put this much effort in. I just realized the thread started in April of 2013. I've been working on this for a year.
I certainly understand why someone wouldn't want to put this much effort in. I just realized the thread started in April of 2013. I've been working on this for a year.