CZ, Weatherby or ?????

jwnissen · Post by **jwnissen** » Sat May 31, 2014 8:40 am

So I am in the market for a new semi-auto shotgun and starting to do some research. I will be going from a 12 to a 20 because im tired of shredding birds. I mainly hunt pheasants but will be going after Huns and quail this year. I am looking to keep my price in the $500-700 range. I am looking at the CZ 720/920 or the Weatherby SA-08 upland or deluxe. Looking for feedback on these shotguns or some other recommendations that might be out there. I have heard the CZ's are a quality gun and a couple of my friends like them. Havent heard about the Weatherby's yet. What do you use/recommend and why? Thanks.

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Sat May 31, 2014 8:52 am

I have a Weatherby Orion that I have been very happy with. Its an over/under, but i really like the gun and get a lot of compliments on it.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sat May 31, 2014 9:07 am

A 1 1/8th oz load from a 12ga doesn't do any more damage than a 1 oz 20ga load. In fact you can further reduce shot by using bigger shot and using more open chokes..

jwnissen · Post by **jwnissen** » Sat May 31, 2014 9:47 am

DonF wrote:A 1 1/8th oz load from a 12ga doesn't do any more damage than a 1 oz 20ga load. In fact you can further reduce shot by using bigger shot and using more open chokes..

Thats what I started doing. I changed to an IC choke and bigger loads. I think a 12 is a little big for what I am hunting, but the ol 870 will still be in the closet if I change my mind!!!!

On a separate note, I have been considering an over/under but have not shot one. That is definitely an option as soon as I can shoot one.

czeger · Post by **czeger** » Sat May 31, 2014 3:34 pm

I looked at the franchi affinity was a nice gun would have bought it but fell in love with the beretta a300 outlander hoping beretta brings it out in 20 ga soon

codym · Post by **codym** » Sat May 31, 2014 3:45 pm

I have never owned either one of these shotguns, but I have owned most every make and brand of auto. I have seen a few of the weatherbys and don't seem to be made as well as thier o/u's or higher end rifles. With autos you really get what you pay for. Stoeger and Franchi have the same enertia system as the benelli and I have owned several Benelli's and they are as reliable as advertised. I've seen quite a few new/used montefeltros on gun broker in the 700-1000 dollar range. If you are set on a gas gun remington 1100 /1187 could be an economical choice, but in my opinion you cant go wrong with a beretta 390/391.Good luck

diplomat019 · Post by **diplomat019** » Sat May 31, 2014 5:59 pm

i hate when i ask question about specifics and getting answers for different brands....but, i bought a beretta a300 for 700 and i love it. shoots great, looks good, and easy to disassemble. and beretta puts out good products. not saying that cz and weatherby don't, but i am partial to beretta and would recommend them to anyone.

RichK · Post by **RichK** » Sat May 31, 2014 7:16 pm

Beretta A300, you won't find a better gun in your price range.

If you do decide to pick one up, I have a few in stock.

codym · Post by **codym** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:25 am

diplomat019 wrote:i hate when i ask question about specifics and getting answers for different brands....but, i bought a beretta a300 for 700 and i love it. shoots great, looks good, and easy to disassemble. and beretta puts out good products. not saying that cz and weatherby don't, but i am partial to beretta and would recommend them to anyone.

I think the original post asked about these shotguns or recs on others out there, could be wrong though.

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:39 pm

Skip the others. Save up a few more dollars, and get a quality used O/U with choke tubes. Solid Miroku's, Berettas, and Brownings can be had for about $1K on the used market. I grew up hunting pheasants in Sunnyside when there were still pheasants there. I used an 870 12Ga for years. A few years ago I switched to double barrel 20's, and they are much more versatile. My old 870 now sits in the closet. Here's why I say that. With a single tubed gun that shoots 3 shells, you have to pick between a tight choke that forces you to hold your first shot,or a more open choke that hurts on long shots. Holding your first shot typically guarantees your third shot is a hail marry that's typically a miss. With a double, you don't need to hold the first shot because the pattern is much more open. That leads to more first shot kills with less blown up birds. Your second barrel can be choked a little tighter which leads to more second shot kills as well. I personally saws a big increase in kill ration when I switched to doubles, and so did my Dad and Brother. We all grew up shooting 12GA 870's, and we all shoot doubles now. IMO the third shot is not important when shooting upland birds that are going away. Being able to shoot quick on the first bird and not destroy it is huge though.......Btw. If I still lived in WA where you could run into chuckar, quail, pheasants, and Huns all on the same hunt, and I had lots of money, I'd spring for a SxS with double triggers loaded with 7 1/2's and #5's. That would be sweet when hunting Royal City or the Palouse.

jwnissen · Post by **jwnissen** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:45 pm

codym wrote:
diplomat019 wrote:i hate when i ask question about specifics and getting answers for different brands....but, i bought a beretta a300 for 700 and i love it. shoots great, looks good, and easy to disassemble. and beretta puts out good products. not saying that cz and weatherby don't, but i am partial to beretta and would recommend them to anyone.

I think the original post asked about these shotguns or recs on others out there, could be wrong though.

Yes, you are absolutely correct, I am looking for advice on any and all shotguns. I know of a few, but i also know there are a lot more nice ones out there, I am pretty sure I looked at a Franchi a while back and I liked it. I also like stoegers as well. I have been running the idea of an over/under but have not shot one yet. As far as autos go, I heard that some have issues in extreme cold. I'm not a fan of hunting when it is really cold, but I have killed a few pheasants when it wasn't much above 0. $1,000 would be my very upper limit and would like to keep it at no more than about 700. I know a couple people who hunt with the winchester sx3 and really like it. I have heard you can shim the stock to make it fit better, but did not like the way it lined up when I first held one. Feel free to share any and all shotguns you have liked over the years and caliber as well. I like the idea of an O/U with 2 different chokes, never thought about that. I think im going to go with a 20g, should be sufficient for the hunting I do.

RichK · Post by **RichK** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:13 pm

jwnissen wrote:
codym wrote:
diplomat019 wrote:i hate when i ask question about specifics and getting answers for different brands....but, i bought a beretta a300 for 700 and i love it. shoots great, looks good, and easy to disassemble. and beretta puts out good products. not saying that cz and weatherby don't, but i am partial to beretta and would recommend them to anyone.

I think the original post asked about these shotguns or recs on others out there, could be wrong though.

Yes, you are absolutely correct, I am looking for advice on any and all shotguns. I know of a few, but i also know there are a lot more nice ones out there, I am pretty sure I looked at a Franchi a while back and I liked it. I also like stoegers as well. I have been running the idea of an over/under but have not shot one yet. As far as autos go, I heard that some have issues in extreme cold. I'm not a fan of hunting when it is really cold, but I have killed a few pheasants when it wasn't much above 0. $1,000 would be my very upper limit and would like to keep it at no more than about 700. I know a couple people who hunt with the winchester sx3 and really like it. I have heard you can shim the stock to make it fit better, but did not like the way it lined up when I first held one. Feel free to share any and all shotguns you have liked over the years and caliber as well. I like the idea of an O/U with 2 different chokes, never thought about that. I think im going to go with a 20g, should be sufficient for the hunting I do.

Here is the truth. Stoegers, Franchis, etc. are junk. The A300 is the best auto in your price range and in my opinion it's the best auto until you step up to the A400's price point.

An O/U is a great gun but a quality O/U isn't cheap. Expect to spend $1,500+ for a new one.

Don't buy a cheap (read: junk) O/U just because it fits in your budget.

Buy the A300 and don't look back. You can thank everyone who recommended it a decade from now when you're still shooting it.

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:40 am

Here's what I'd buy in your price range. Miroku's are very well built guns that carry the Charles Daily, Browning, and the Miroku name. Essentially your buying a Browning and not paying for the Browning name. They are very respected in the O/U would.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Charle ... =100434734

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Miroku ... =100379765

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:41 am

http://www.gunsinternational.com/4246-C ... =100441305

Miroku's are twice the guns of the Semi-autos your looking at. Plus you don't have to worry about all the cycling issues that come along with semi-autos.

BTW. I also have a Beretta 390 that sits in the closet because it won't cycle the light shells I use for quail. It's a great looking gun and a fun gun to shoot when it works, but it won't cycle light loads.

MGIII · Post by **MGIII** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:34 am

I don't know how much this post had helped the OP but it's helped me a bit. I've been looking for a 20gauge O/U and at first was going to settle for one in the $500 price range. Well not so much anymore. Between this post and some other sites you all have convinced me to save up for a browning or Beretta. The silver pigeon looks pretty sweet. I can't find anywhere locally that is selling a used shotgun I'm looking for. I guess nobody wants to get rid of them.

natel24 · Post by **natel24** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:29 am

RichK wrote:An O/U is a great gun but a quality O/U isn't cheap. Expect to spend $1,500+ for a new one.

Don't buy a cheap (read: junk) O/U just because it fits in your budget.

Buy the A300 and don't look back. You can thank everyone who recommended it a decade from now when you're still shooting it.

I happen to own a "junk" stoeger sxs and once stood over my brother trying to fix his 2500$ browning in the field on a hunting trip 8hrs from home, where before we left i was loading both my guns for the trip when he told me "i don't need to bring a back up gun, i shoot a browning." Ha ha, now i know this is a rare case and i know brownings are way better than stoegers and most of the time the situation would be reversed, but I sure did have a little grin on my face when he was borrowing my backup gun.
ps - i've never had an issue with my stoeger.

RichK · Post by **RichK** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:04 am

natel24 wrote:
RichK wrote:An O/U is a great gun but a quality O/U isn't cheap. Expect to spend $1,500+ for a new one.

Don't buy a cheap (read: junk) O/U just because it fits in your budget.

Buy the A300 and don't look back. You can thank everyone who recommended it a decade from now when you're still shooting it.
I happen to own a "junk" stoeger sxs and once stood over my brother trying to fix his 2500$ browning in the field on a hunting trip 8hrs from home, where before we left i was loading both my guns for the trip when he told me "i don't need to bring a back up gun, i shoot a browning." Ha ha, now i know this is a rare case and i know brownings are way better than stoegers and most of the time the situation would be reversed, but I sure did have a little grin on my face when he was borrowing my backup gun.
ps - i've never had an issue with my stoeger.

Put 50,000 rounds through both guns and report back. You might not notice a difference if you are only going to shoot it occasionally, in the long run though there is a huge difference.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:26 am

RichK wrote:
natel24 wrote:
RichK wrote:An O/U is a great gun but a quality O/U isn't cheap. Expect to spend $1,500+ for a new one.

Don't buy a cheap (read: junk) O/U just because it fits in your budget.

Buy the A300 and don't look back. You can thank everyone who recommended it a decade from now when you're still shooting it.
I happen to own a "junk" stoeger sxs and once stood over my brother trying to fix his 2500$ browning in the field on a hunting trip 8hrs from home, where before we left i was loading both my guns for the trip when he told me "i don't need to bring a back up gun, i shoot a browning." Ha ha, now i know this is a rare case and i know brownings are way better than stoegers and most of the time the situation would be reversed, but I sure did have a little grin on my face when he was borrowing my backup gun.
ps - i've never had an issue with my stoeger.
Put 50,000 rounds through both guns and report back. You might not notice a difference if you are only going to shoot it occasionally, in the long run though there is a huge difference.

We could make these same comments about a BMW or a Lexus or several other vehicles. Rich K whats in your garage?

Ezzy

RichK · Post by **RichK** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:17 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
We could make these same comments about a BMW or a Lexus or several other vehicles. Rich K whats in your garage?

Ezzy

A Jeep, you wouldn't catch me in a BMW or a Lexus.

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:20 pm

ezzy333 wrote:We could make these same comments about a BMW or a Lexus or several other vehicles. Rich K whats in your garage?

Ezzy

Bad comparison. We're not comparing cars. There's nothing wrong with an inexpensive shotgun if you don't use it much. But at the end of the day, with enough rounds, all shotguns will eventually fail. Cheap guns are cheap for a reason, and they do fail much more often. They also have crappy triggers, crappy wood, crappy internals, and a bunch of other crappy stuff. They do typically work though, but can't be compared to a well built shotgun where the basic quality of the gun isn't compromised. There's a reason most well built doubles start at about $2K for a basic gun, and can easily reach 6 digits in cost.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:47 pm

jetjockey wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:We could make these same comments about a BMW or a Lexus or several other vehicles. Rich K whats in your garage?

Ezzy
Bad comparison. We're not comparing cars. There's nothing wrong with an inexpensive shotgun if you don't use it much. But at the end of the day, with enough rounds, all shotguns will eventually fail. Cheap guns are cheap for a reason, and they do fail much more often. They also have crappy triggers, crappy wood, crappy internals, and a bunch of other crappy stuff. They do typically work though, but can't be compared to a well built shotgun where the basic quality of the gun isn't compromised. There's a reason most well built doubles start at about $2K for a basic gun, and can easily reach 6 digits in cost.

All of what you say may be true but I have never had one fail and most of my guns are the cheap variety and old. A couple of he double barrels date back to my Grandfathers guns and they all go bang and occasionally kill something. I know lots of people shooting these cheaper guns and haven't seen or heard of any of them failing. Take it back I do know of a Winchester that failed. I have never shot one but an awful lot of people are shooting the CZ and I have only heard of one person finding fault with them. I think a lot of the price is determined by whose name you want on your gun and not necessarily the quality of the gun though I do understand quality is important but can be found in many different brands.

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:35 pm

I hate when guys complain about the cost of better guns when they have 5,6,7,8....junky ones rather than 1 or 2 really good ones.

You can pass a Beretta, Rizzini or Guerini to another generation but you can't do that with something like a CZ.

And much like the Lexus and BMW example those better guns are still worth quite a bit even after 10 years or more.

Angus · Post by **Angus** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:06 pm

MonsterDad wrote:I hate when guys complain about the cost of better guns when they have 5,6,7,8....junky ones rather than 1 or 2 really good ones.

You can pass a Beretta, Rizzini or Guerini to another generation but you can't do that with something like a CZ.

And much like the Lexus and BMW example those better guns are still worth quite a bit even after 10 years or more.

I have to disagree. CZ makes some great guns. CZ 75b may be the most used sidearm on the planet. Sure it's not a Fine custom SxS, but it speaks to the reliability of the company. My next shotgun will be a CZ SxS in .20 gauge. I fully intend to pass it on to my daughter.

Cost 20 years down the road doesn't mean squat to me. I don't sell guns, my dad doesn't sell guns, my grandfather never sold a gun, and my daughter will not sell a gun. There is more to a firearm than resale, unlike an overpriced car.

I can buy a used Cayman for the price of a new Mustang. I'd take the Mustang.

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:12 pm

Except for the fact that CZ doesn't actually make shotguns. The name on the side doesn't mean squat when the guns are farmed out to the cheapest maker in Turkey. I'm not necessarily bashing Turkish guns, but there is a reason for the nickname Hu Glued! This is where consumer knowledge is very important. Just because the shotgun says Kimber, Weatherby, or CZ on the side, doesn't mean they actually made the gun. Be very weary of Turkish built guns.

Angus · Post by **Angus** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:18 pm

jetjockey wrote:Except for the fact that CZ doesn't actually make shotguns. The name on the side doesn't mean much when the guns are farmed out to the cheapest maker in Turkey. I'm not necessarily bashing Turkish guns, but there is a reason for the nickname Hu Glued!

Isn't most things made by the cheapest bidder, to the specs of the company putting their name on the side? Would you believe me if I told you Lenders Bagels were made in teh same plant as a minimum, 10 other beagle makers? Or that Lexus is only an American thing. It's Toyota still in majority of the world.

What about Springfield, Browning, etc...

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:34 pm

Not in the doublegun shotgun world. That's why I suggested Miroku shotguns. Absolutely fantastic guns for a great price. Notice I didn't say cheap? I said great price. Doubles are expensive to build. Corners have to be cut when building an inexpensive double. Beretta does it with their 686 White Onyx. You get no engraving, crap wood, and they still cost $2K brand new. But they are "bleep" good guns built in the Beretta factory in Italy. Throw in decent wood, a little engraving, and even some case color, and your at $4K brand new (retail price).

In the double gun world, for the most part, you really do get what you pay for.

deke · Post by **deke** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:35 pm

jetjockey wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:We could make these same comments about a BMW or a Lexus or several other vehicles. Rich K whats in your garage?

Ezzy
Bad comparison. We're not comparing cars. There's nothing wrong with an inexpensive shotgun if you don't use it much. But at the end of the day, with enough rounds, all shotguns will eventually fail. Cheap guns are cheap for a reason, and they do fail much more often. They also have crappy triggers, crappy wood, crappy internals, and a bunch of other crappy stuff. They do typically work though, but can't be compared to a well built shotgun where the basic quality of the gun isn't compromised. There's a reason most well built doubles start at about $2K for a basic gun, and can easily reach 6 digits in cost.

One of my favorite quotes from one of the older guys at the gunclub I used to work at. I asked him why he had a shotgun that was worth more than his truck. He turns to me and says " If you were to drive across the united states, would you rather do it in a Ferrari or a Honda" I say Ferrari of course " why, both of them will get you there"

OP Buy whatever gun tickles your fancy. I kill more birds then my entire group every year with a gun that costs half as much, while my expensive guns sit in the safe.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:46 pm

Plastic stocks, cheap engravings (almost all for that matter), etched stocks and that Faux wood grain (Beretta uses), are four things to ugly up a gun for sure.

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:03 pm

All Im saying is know what your buying. 870's are fantastic guns of typically high quality and inexpensive to build. Inexpensive double guns? Not so much.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/turkish_invasion.htm

rat · Post by **rat** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:51 pm

The beretta just can't be beat. I have shot one of 25 years. Try one!

MGIII · Post by **MGIII** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:54 pm

How do mossbergs rank? I was looking at the Mossberg Silver Reserve II

S'setter · Post by **S'setter** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:45 pm

Beretta O/U gets my vote...

Devilscreekw · Post by **Devilscreekw** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:31 am

I've had a bunch of Remington autos...no major problems, but I bought a Weatherby SA08 this year (12 gauge synthetic model) primarily for pheasant expeditions. Absolutely flawless right out of the box, and have not had one FTE, FTF, anything, even with the cheap Winchester promo shells.

Only complaint is the factory choke tubes will shoot loose after about 75 rounds, but not a major concern.

JWP58 · Post by **JWP58** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:15 am

Why not look at an 1100? You could pickup an older one easily in the price range you're looking to spend. Same dimensions as your 870, so you'll be familiar with it. I would also suggest the Franchi Affinity, its a decent gun for being "junk". Or maybe a Franchi O/U?

I await the "1100's are junk, get a beretta" crowd.

Quick example I found in 5mins

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =419984523

P&PGunsmith · Post by **P&PGunsmith** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:42 am

jwnissen wrote:So I am in the market for a new semi-auto shotgun and starting to do some research. I will be going from a 12 to a 20 because im tired of shredding birds. I mainly hunt pheasants but will be going after Huns and quail this year. I am looking to keep my price in the $500-700 range. I am looking at the CZ 720/920 or the Weatherby SA-08 upland or deluxe. Looking for feedback on these shotguns or some other recommendations that might be out there. I have heard the CZ's are a quality gun and a couple of my friends like them. Havent heard about the Weatherby's yet. What do you use/recommend and why? Thanks.

I guess it must be hard for some people to imagine working with a budget by some of the responses. The first question I always ask is the price you can afford. After that what is the outside price you can afford if you had to stretch somewhat. That way you can price up shotguns in your budget and while doing so if some hit outside that, that you would rather have then you can stretch to that if it is within say 20%. There are lots of both CZ and Weatherbys being used with no problem. All guns are mechanical equipment and despite what you read all brands have some that end up needing repair. I had a customer bring in a Franchi and swore they were the worst despite being from the Benelli family and almost the same mechanically. Despite this he would never get another gun unless it was a Benelli and did so. So you might get a CZ and need repair at some time but you might get a Beretta and need repair at some time.
Despite all of that I would also have you look at the tri star guns. They have a 5 year warranty period despite the low cost and have been getting good review.
I think the Franchis also are within your price range.
Also the Mossbergs which should be within your grasp and are still made in the USA which is important to me. I shoot a Mossberg 930 as my duck gun.
Remingtons are also the USA made but are probably beyond your budget.
Hope this helps.

JWP58 · Post by **JWP58** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:57 am

Oh and I forgot to mention. Im pinching pennies for a 28ga CZ Redhead....sure comes up nice on the shoulder.

OP, buy what you want. Personally I would stay away from CZ semi autos. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a CZ O/U or SxS that's a post 2006. I've heard very good things about the Weatherby semis (like the newer 28ga)

MGIII · Post by **MGIII** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Good info. Thanks

Curious · Post by **Curious** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:54 am

OP--Check out the forum on ShotgunWorld.com They have a CZ (Huglu) section and you can find several different threads related to the CZ 912/920 & 712/720 and they all seem to be positive. CZ also has a 5 year warranty on their guns if you happen to have some type of problem.

Weatherby also gets good reviews on different forums. Only thing about them is you have to switch the gas valve depending on if you are using light or heavy loads. Now I'm sure that helps with reliability but I'm not sure I want to keep track of the other gas valve when it's not in use.

"B" Guns all have their well deserved reputation for a reason. But they are expensive. If you are going to put 5K-7K a year shooting clays and hunting than I would say save the extra money and get a used "B" gun. If you are going to shoot 200-400 rds a year getting ready for upland season and actually hunting than the CZ or Weatherby should fit your needs with out going over your budget.

jwnissen · Post by **jwnissen** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:38 pm

Thank you all for the input. It seems like its the age old question, which is better Ford, Dodge or Chevy??? I appreciate any and all opinions. Looks like I need to find a large gun supply and go shoulder them all and see what fits better. The answer is Chevy, by the way

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:52 pm

jwnissen wrote:Thank you all for the input. It seems like its the age old question, which is better Ford, Dodge or Chevy??? I appreciate any and all opinions. Looks like I need to find a large gun supply and go shoulder them all and see what fits better. The answer is Chevy, by the way

So your are looking for a gun made so poorly it drove its company into bankruptcy? Look into an Ithaca or Winchester.

sckwest1 · Post by **sckwest1** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:59 am

I have a CZ o/u and have never had a problem with it. I have friends with CZ o/u and SxS and they have never had a problem. I recommend CZ and not because of the price, but because I have been very happy with mine. My next will be a CZ SxS.

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:47 am

jwnissen wrote:Thank you all for the input. It seems like its the age old question, which is better Ford, Dodge or Chevy??? I appreciate any and all opinions. Looks like I need to find a large gun supply and go shoulder them all and see what fits better. The answer is Chevy, by the way

That's why I suggested Miroku shotguns. They are relatively unknown to the every day shot gunner. However, to the guys who you might considered shotgun nuts, they are easily as well respected as The "B" guns. Heck, they make many of them. There is no comparison between a Miroku, and the Turkish made doubles by CZ, Higlou, or Weatherby. No comparison!! Yet, you can buy a used Miroku for the same price. If you want to step up in quality for the same price, get a Miroku. If you don't believe me, just google Miroku quality, or Miroku reviews. Good luck.

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/reviews/sho ... -5-shotgun

http://www.clayshootingusa.com/html/arc ... nmaker.pdf

jwnissen · Post by **jwnissen** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:01 am

jetjockey wrote:
jwnissen wrote:Thank you all for the input. It seems like its the age old question, which is better Ford, Dodge or Chevy??? I appreciate any and all opinions. Looks like I need to find a large gun supply and go shoulder them all and see what fits better. The answer is Chevy, by the way

That's why I suggested Miroku shotguns. They are relatively unknown to the every day shot gunner. However, to the guys who you might considered shotgun nuts, they are easily as well respected as The "B" guns. Heck, they make many of them. There is no comparison between a Miroku, and the Turkish made doubles by CZ, Higlou, or Weatherby. No comparison!! Yet, you can buy a used Miroku for the same price. If you want to step up in quality for the same price, get a Miroku. If you don't believe me, just google Miroku quality, or Miroku reviews. Good luck.

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/reviews/sho ... -5-shotgun

http://www.clayshootingusa.com/html/arc ... nmaker.pdf

From the research I have been doing, it looks like Miroku made Charles daily. Is that true? I would like to put my hands on one and a friend of mine has an old charls daily 20 ga that should have the same feel as the Miroku, unless Im totally off track.

Tyler S · Post by **Tyler S** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:12 pm

sckwest1 wrote:I have a CZ o/u and have never had a problem with it. I have friends with CZ o/u and SxS and they have never had a problem. I recommend CZ and not because of the price, but because I have been very happy with mine. My next will be a CZ SxS.

Our loaner guns are CZ and are great guns for the price. They are produced by Huglu in Turkey. Prior to 2007 they had some firing pin/ and trigger problems, but have since corrected it. They aren't junk, if they were they wouldn't have survived in the American market. I agree they aren't K or B guns, but I've got a 20ga wingshooter that's had thousands of rounds through it and hasn't missed a lick. The others are a Ringneck and BobWhite all in 20, with no problems what so ever.

IMO they are a great deal for the money, and I hear their customer service fantastic...never used it.

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:33 pm

jwnissen wrote:From the research I have been doing, it looks like Miroku made Charles daily. Is that true? I would like to put my hands on one and a friend of mine has an old charls daily 20 ga that should have the same feel as the Miroku, unless Im totally off track.

Yes they did. Shortly after they stopped making the CD's they started making the Brownig Citori's. Feel and looks wise the CD's and Browning are identicle, but the Citori's have a little different internals. The CD'sare very good guns, but the parts can be hard to come by if you break something. I suggest you throw a Miroku built Citori to your shoulder and then consider looking for a Miroku branded gun made in the 70's, they will feel exactly the same. Then again, so will a CD. Either way, do the reaserch and see it's a gun for you. They are much better built guns than the Turkish built guns mentioned above. But they have draw backs a well. Either way it soundalike your doing your research, so you really won't go wrong.

jwnissen · Post by **jwnissen** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:52 pm

So here is something I just thought about. With all the new rules and steel shot, will Miroku o/u's hold up to steel shot or do I need to look a newer gun?? I know most older guns can't shoot steel shot because the barrels wont hold up. I have decided to get a Miroku unless it will not handle steel shot. Thanks again for the help.

USMC · Post by **USMC** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:39 pm

I think the original post asked about these shotguns or recs on others out there, could be wrong though.[/quote]

Yes, you are absolutely correct, I am looking for advice on any and all shotguns. I know of a few, but i also know there are a lot more nice ones out there, I am pretty sure I looked at a Franchi a while back and I liked it. I also like stoegers as well. I have been running the idea of an over/under but have not shot one yet. As far as autos go, I heard that some have issues in extreme cold. I'm not a fan of hunting when it is really cold, but I have killed a few pheasants when it wasn't much above 0. $1,000 would be my very upper limit and would like to keep it at no more than about 700. I know a couple people who hunt with the winchester sx3 and really like it. I have heard you can shim the stock to make it fit better, but did not like the way it lined up when I first held one. Feel free to share any and all shotguns you have liked over the years and caliber as well. I like the idea of an O/U with 2 different chokes, never thought about that. I think im going to go with a 20g, should be sufficient for the hunting I do.[/quote]

Here is the truth. Stoegers, Franchis, etc. are junk. The A300 is the best auto in your price range and in my opinion it's the best auto until you step up to the A400's price point.

An O/U is a great gun but a quality O/U isn't cheap. Expect to spend $1,500+ for a new one.

Don't buy a cheap (read: junk) O/U just because it fits in your budget.

Buy the A300 and don't look back. You can thank everyone who recommended it a decade from now when you're still shooting it.[/quote]

Consider yourself lucky as you just got the best advice for free!

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:20 am

jwnissen wrote:So here is something I just thought about. With all the new rules and steel shot, will Miroku o/u's hold up to steel shot or do I need to look a newer gun?? I know most older guns can't shoot steel shot because the barrels wont hold up. I have decided to get a Miroku unless it will not handle steel shot. Thanks again for the help.

That's a good question, and one of the reasons I said they have their drawbacks. Don't quote me, but I believe it will have to do with the chokes. Most modern day loads protect the bores pretty well. The issue arises at the end of the barrel where the chokes start to constrict to tighten the pattern. Steel will not deform under the constriction like lead will, thus with tight chokes, you can damage a barrel not set up to shoot steel. I "believe" you can shoot steel through the later model Miroku's with Mod and more open constrictions. But I'm not honestly sure. I'd be willing to bet you will get answeres that support both. That would be a good question for shotgunworld or the doublegun forum. Doublegun probably being your best bet.

Just thought of something. Call Briley and see what they say. I'd be willing to bet that worse case scenerio is they could thread the barrels for interchangeable choke tubs that would be steel safe. That would also make the gun more usable.