Time to Fully Train a Brittany
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Time to Fully Train a Brittany
If one has a well bred Brittany how long would it take a professional trainer to fully train that dog for hunting?
Now I know it varies based on the quality of the dog, the trainer, etc. But in my discussions with trainers and fellow hunters I am hearing a range for 1-3 months for a fully trained pointer! Does that sound about right?
I have had my retrievers fully trained and the time range on that is 9-12 months....but that's another story!
Now I know it varies based on the quality of the dog, the trainer, etc. But in my discussions with trainers and fellow hunters I am hearing a range for 1-3 months for a fully trained pointer! Does that sound about right?
I have had my retrievers fully trained and the time range on that is 9-12 months....but that's another story!
Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
Can you send me the name of the guy who can fully train a pointing breed in a month?
I've had a couple of really talented dogs that were pretty much fully trained in 3-6 months, but most of the others were more like 6-12 in approximately 3 month stints. That was for fully broke (no retrieve, not required for our purposes, but handing like a Ferrari, STWS, STF, honoring, and just about bomb proof on birds).
Seems to me it would depend on what your standards are. If you need kinda-sorta steady on most birds and going on the shot, and some retrieve work, probably a couple three months?
I've had a couple of really talented dogs that were pretty much fully trained in 3-6 months, but most of the others were more like 6-12 in approximately 3 month stints. That was for fully broke (no retrieve, not required for our purposes, but handing like a Ferrari, STWS, STF, honoring, and just about bomb proof on birds).
Seems to me it would depend on what your standards are. If you need kinda-sorta steady on most birds and going on the shot, and some retrieve work, probably a couple three months?
Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
I have fully trained 3 brittanies and none of them were fully trained within a couple of months ! I think 5 - 6 months is a more realistic figure ….it is when training is done by me anyway.
Bill T.
Bill T.
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
Well I guess it depends on your definition of fully trained: reliable on holding birds , smart on using the wind , responds to hunter's vocal commands /or whistle etc... I'd say 2 years... 2 hunting seasons after initial training , assuming nothing went wrong.Timewise65 wrote:If one has a well bred Brittany how long would it take a professional trainer to fully train that dog for hunting?
Now I know it varies based on the quality of the dog, the trainer, etc. But in my discussions with trainers and fellow hunters I am hearing a range for 1-3 months for a fully trained pointer! Does that sound about right?
I have had my retrievers fully trained and the time range on that is 9-12 months....but that's another story!
I'll be interested in Feather finder's comment on this as he had the top -or one of the top- Brittany in Canada.
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
Timewise -
Disclaimer....Your mileage may vary....
If the dog is of the age where it can take the training, a dog can be steadied to wing and shot over a summer. Many are. Whether you consider that dog trained sufficiently for hunting, depends very much on what you yourself require of the dog.
It varies with the dog, but the conventional wisdom is that a dog is ready to be steadied, to mean that it has the physical and mental ability, capacity and resilience to take the training and pressure require when it is somewhere between 10 and 15 months of age. The younger and more immature the dog is , the less likely it will have the mental resilience to take the pressure. The older and more mature a dog is, beyond the stated window, the more likely that the trainer will meet resistance when trying to bend the dog's will to the task , and therefore may well require additional pressure to get compliance.
If the dog has been thoroughly schooled in obedience prior to being put with a pro, one might expect a higher level of polish and performance. if the OB schooling is lacking, the pro will likely have to do that work as well, so the dog will not be able to be as far along.
To have a dog hunt AND handle reliably will take a period of formal training, followed by at least a significant part of one upland season(again depending on how often the dog gets to actually hunt). If the hunter is a weekend warrior that can only get out once or twice a week, the dog will typically not get enough exposure and experience to be "reliable". On the other hand, if the hunter is able to take the dog out three or four times a week and get it into birds and different types of terrain on a regular basis, the "handle" may well come fairly soon.
Last but not least...there is the breed to consider. It is fairly common for the well bred Brittany to be "eager to please" and want to be with you. This temperament in a dog will generally make the training process move along without hiccups in the hands of a competent pro and makes it easier for the hunter as well.
RayG
Disclaimer....Your mileage may vary....
If the dog is of the age where it can take the training, a dog can be steadied to wing and shot over a summer. Many are. Whether you consider that dog trained sufficiently for hunting, depends very much on what you yourself require of the dog.
It varies with the dog, but the conventional wisdom is that a dog is ready to be steadied, to mean that it has the physical and mental ability, capacity and resilience to take the training and pressure require when it is somewhere between 10 and 15 months of age. The younger and more immature the dog is , the less likely it will have the mental resilience to take the pressure. The older and more mature a dog is, beyond the stated window, the more likely that the trainer will meet resistance when trying to bend the dog's will to the task , and therefore may well require additional pressure to get compliance.
If the dog has been thoroughly schooled in obedience prior to being put with a pro, one might expect a higher level of polish and performance. if the OB schooling is lacking, the pro will likely have to do that work as well, so the dog will not be able to be as far along.
To have a dog hunt AND handle reliably will take a period of formal training, followed by at least a significant part of one upland season(again depending on how often the dog gets to actually hunt). If the hunter is a weekend warrior that can only get out once or twice a week, the dog will typically not get enough exposure and experience to be "reliable". On the other hand, if the hunter is able to take the dog out three or four times a week and get it into birds and different types of terrain on a regular basis, the "handle" may well come fairly soon.
Last but not least...there is the breed to consider. It is fairly common for the well bred Brittany to be "eager to please" and want to be with you. This temperament in a dog will generally make the training process move along without hiccups in the hands of a competent pro and makes it easier for the hunter as well.
RayG
Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
About 1 year .
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
How old is the dog?
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
Thanks to all for the good information and comments....to be fair, let me expand my story!
I have owned field Golden Retrievers for over 25 years. During that time I have used pro's to help train my retrievers up to where they were competent waterfowl hunters. I also ran my dogs in hunt tests up to the Master Hunter level, meaning they were fully trained retrievers. I do most obedience training on my own with some field training mixed in as they progress. I do not do FF, I leave that to the Pro's.
Over the last year I had to put down my oldest female she was 14.5 years old. She was my best overall dog and was a joy to hunt with, including dove and upland game. She will be missed...I have a 12 year old male who I had to retire after this season as his hips are beginning to be a problem. My other pup is a 4 year old SH. She is a fine red Golden, lots of style and has passed MH tests, but has not yet got enough passes to be MH...she also has her WCX. She is a field bred Golden but is only 20", very small for a Golden, but perfect for a hunting dog. She is well socialized to other dogs and people. She was professionally trained for 12 months....
I am retired and am a member of a hunting club that gives me access to lots of good leased property in MO., IOWA, NEB., KS...when I reserve a property, I and my guests will be the only one on that property.
Over the last year I have hunted primarily for Pheasant and Quail. I very much enjoyed the change and now plan on spending all of my time on upland game. I get better exercise and prefer quail and pheasant for table fare compared to duck and geese. Therefore, I am investigating the possibility of purchasing a well bred Brittany and getting him/her professionally trained. Although, I am very familiar with Retriever training and all that goes with that, I have limited experience with pointing/flushing breeds, other than the fact I have hunted over some very well trained pointers and flushers over the years.
I am reading and researching as much as possible. I have surveyed and have developed a list to good field grade Brittany breeders. If I decide to purchase a pup, and if the wife agrees, I want to have that puppy and myself fully trained by a good professional. I will run the pup in hunt tests, as I have found this experience to be great fun for both my wife and I, and the pup also. Since we are retired, we can go wherever we want for the tests. It is a great way to meet people in the sport and learn a lot about working the dog and hunting the dog. I have considered running in Field Trials, but that type of Campaign is a bit more than I am up to at this point in my life. Ultimately, my desire is to have a fully trained pointing dog that I can take out and hunt and also be a family pet. I have two adult sons who are outdoorsman and enjoy hunting with me. Soon behind them is a 12 year old Granddaughter (First Hunt will be this year) and 8 year old Grandson, who will soon join the hunts. My other son has a 7 year old boy and 3 year old girl....they all will be bird hunters, for sure....so a new pup will have lot's of hunters to work for and play with after the hunt.
At this point I am just doing the do diligence that most good dog owners do prior to getting a new pup. Mine is more extensive because I know all, that I don't know. I want to be sure of what costs I am looking at prior to getting committed to a pup. As you all probably understand, the wife has to be fully on board with this detail also, and I better have some accurate estimated costs or I will hear about it later.....if you know what I mean!
Anyway, I appreciate all who have added information and comments to my posts....when and if I decide to go forward, I will provide updates accordingly. I have been a dog person my whole life and have seriously enjoyed owning and running my Golden's for many years. But I am so tired of sitting in blinds or laying in ground blinds....my last pheasant hunt was so much more fun walking and watching good dogs working the field. That really made my mind up that is it time for a change....
I am you all understand this last point!
I have owned field Golden Retrievers for over 25 years. During that time I have used pro's to help train my retrievers up to where they were competent waterfowl hunters. I also ran my dogs in hunt tests up to the Master Hunter level, meaning they were fully trained retrievers. I do most obedience training on my own with some field training mixed in as they progress. I do not do FF, I leave that to the Pro's.
Over the last year I had to put down my oldest female she was 14.5 years old. She was my best overall dog and was a joy to hunt with, including dove and upland game. She will be missed...I have a 12 year old male who I had to retire after this season as his hips are beginning to be a problem. My other pup is a 4 year old SH. She is a fine red Golden, lots of style and has passed MH tests, but has not yet got enough passes to be MH...she also has her WCX. She is a field bred Golden but is only 20", very small for a Golden, but perfect for a hunting dog. She is well socialized to other dogs and people. She was professionally trained for 12 months....
I am retired and am a member of a hunting club that gives me access to lots of good leased property in MO., IOWA, NEB., KS...when I reserve a property, I and my guests will be the only one on that property.
Over the last year I have hunted primarily for Pheasant and Quail. I very much enjoyed the change and now plan on spending all of my time on upland game. I get better exercise and prefer quail and pheasant for table fare compared to duck and geese. Therefore, I am investigating the possibility of purchasing a well bred Brittany and getting him/her professionally trained. Although, I am very familiar with Retriever training and all that goes with that, I have limited experience with pointing/flushing breeds, other than the fact I have hunted over some very well trained pointers and flushers over the years.
I am reading and researching as much as possible. I have surveyed and have developed a list to good field grade Brittany breeders. If I decide to purchase a pup, and if the wife agrees, I want to have that puppy and myself fully trained by a good professional. I will run the pup in hunt tests, as I have found this experience to be great fun for both my wife and I, and the pup also. Since we are retired, we can go wherever we want for the tests. It is a great way to meet people in the sport and learn a lot about working the dog and hunting the dog. I have considered running in Field Trials, but that type of Campaign is a bit more than I am up to at this point in my life. Ultimately, my desire is to have a fully trained pointing dog that I can take out and hunt and also be a family pet. I have two adult sons who are outdoorsman and enjoy hunting with me. Soon behind them is a 12 year old Granddaughter (First Hunt will be this year) and 8 year old Grandson, who will soon join the hunts. My other son has a 7 year old boy and 3 year old girl....they all will be bird hunters, for sure....so a new pup will have lot's of hunters to work for and play with after the hunt.
At this point I am just doing the do diligence that most good dog owners do prior to getting a new pup. Mine is more extensive because I know all, that I don't know. I want to be sure of what costs I am looking at prior to getting committed to a pup. As you all probably understand, the wife has to be fully on board with this detail also, and I better have some accurate estimated costs or I will hear about it later.....if you know what I mean!
Anyway, I appreciate all who have added information and comments to my posts....when and if I decide to go forward, I will provide updates accordingly. I have been a dog person my whole life and have seriously enjoyed owning and running my Golden's for many years. But I am so tired of sitting in blinds or laying in ground blinds....my last pheasant hunt was so much more fun walking and watching good dogs working the field. That really made my mind up that is it time for a change....
I am you all understand this last point!
Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
Have you thought about buying a finished dog--that way you know what the final product will be -- one that exactly fits what you want it to do. Since it would probably be at least 2 years old to be completely finished, all the health checks have probably already been done (hips, elbows, etc.) Just a though :roll: The dog would be spending a lot of time at the trainers anyway. You can start hunting and running the dog in upper level hunt tests right away and not wait the year or two for it to be trained.
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
Timewise65... are you sold on getting a pup? Have you thought about getting a younger dog that’s already professionally trained. I’m just throwing this out there as it seems you plan to have someone else do the training.
Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
In your position I would at least look into a well started dog. If you then feel the need for a pro it will cost less to get the dog the way you want it. If cost is an object this will probably be the most cost effective for you. There are pit falls in hunting a pup or young dog with a group but that is a whole different subject. Have a good time in your search.
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
Timewise65, While you are doing due diligence I would look into which Pro Trainer you would use to train a prospective pup. Describe for them your objectives for the finished dog and get their input on when and how many months they predict they would need to train your pup. Perfection Kennel is very feasible in terms of your location and theirs, and arguably in the running for the best there is.
Would seem to me the very best opinion you can get on the subject is one from the person you are most likely to hire for the job.
Would seem to me the very best opinion you can get on the subject is one from the person you are most likely to hire for the job.
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
deseeker, nevermind, mask…
Thanks for the comments. And yes, I will consider a fully finished dog or at least a started dog. Emotionally, it is not my first choice, as I enjoy obedience training a pup and just having a puppy around, even though they are a lot of work. But yes, at my current age, I will have to consider it if I find a good pup, finished or well started, with a good breeder trainer.
Thanks for the comments. And yes, I will consider a fully finished dog or at least a started dog. Emotionally, it is not my first choice, as I enjoy obedience training a pup and just having a puppy around, even though they are a lot of work. But yes, at my current age, I will have to consider it if I find a good pup, finished or well started, with a good breeder trainer.
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
Yes, I agree finding a trainer that meets my needs is always difficult! I have been through this many times in the past having used 4-5 different trainers over the years to train my Goldens. I finally found a couple up in Ill. that specifically field train Golden Retrievers. They have the best set up and overall program I have even witnessed. But, the only do Retriever training.averageguy wrote:Timewise65, While you are doing due diligence I would look into which Pro Trainer you would use to train a prospective pup. Describe for them your objectives for the finished dog and get their input on when and how many months they predict they would need to train your pup. Perfection Kennel is very feasible in terms of your location and theirs, and arguably in the running for the best there is.
Would seem to me the very best opinion you can get on the subject is one from the person you are most likely to hire for the job.
But, from these experiences I know what a 'good' trainer is when I find them. I also know what to watch out for. Of course meeting them and visiting where they train is part of the process.
I will for sure, look at Perfection Kennel...
In a perfect world the dog will come from the trainer who is also a breeder or at least does some breeding. But, this may be difficult to find....
Thanks to all for the good comments....it helps me put things in perspective!
- kninebirddog
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
shags wrote:Can you send me the name of the guy who can fully train a pointing breed in a month?
I've had a couple of really talented dogs that were pretty much fully trained in 3-6 months, but most of the others were more like 6-12 in approximately 3 month stints. That was for fully broke (no retrieve, not required for our purposes, but handing like a Ferrari, STWS, STF, honoring, and just about bomb proof on birds).
Seems to me it would depend on what your standards are. If you need kinda-sorta steady on most birds and going on the shot, and some retrieve work, probably a couple three months?
These are the kind of trainers that keep the Real trainers in business
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- CDN_Cocker
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
No one can fully train a bird dog in 3 months. 3 months will give you the basics... no more. I don't care who you are.
Cass
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"If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." - Rex Carr
Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
These arguments are never productive because they'res rarely a decent consensus on a starting line, or finish line.CDN_Cocker wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:22 pmNo one can fully train a bird dog in 3 months. 3 months will give you the basics... no more. I don't care who you are.
- gonehuntin'
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
Average trainer will take 3-4 months for field, obedience and ff.
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
A trained dog. Well a trained dog really isn't there IMO when training is done. You have to put that training to work on wild birds and that finish's the training. Wild birds will not act like pen raised birds. But to get to the point where training is sufficient to go to wild bird's is gonna depend a lot on what you want from the dog. I could get your dog on wild birds in a month but it would leave a lot of work need doing by the wild birds. I think most trainer's can get a dog done in about 3 to 4 months and ready for the advance training the wild bird get's. Some might come around quicker! I guess the real answer is it takes as long as it take's. Lot depends on how biddable and willing your dog is, makes a big difference! In the end your gonna find training to be an on going process. If nothing else it's gonna need a refresher in early fall before hunting season's open.
To get going though, it take's as long as it takes, don't push your trainer unless you are really sure what your doing and then if you feel the need for that, you need a new trainer. Trainer that tell's you he can do it in a month I believe just want's your foot in his door. After that will come good reason's why your dog couldn't do that in a month!
To get going though, it take's as long as it takes, don't push your trainer unless you are really sure what your doing and then if you feel the need for that, you need a new trainer. Trainer that tell's you he can do it in a month I believe just want's your foot in his door. After that will come good reason's why your dog couldn't do that in a month!
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- kninebirddog
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
Depends on the dog and what you are training for and your method
I get to see plenty of dogs that are rushed to much just like children one will be natural and the other if rushed gets crushed in the process
Age has nothing to do with maturity
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I get to see plenty of dogs that are rushed to much just like children one will be natural and the other if rushed gets crushed in the process
Age has nothing to do with maturity
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
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If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
There are the obvious variables, such as:
- your definition or the trainer's definition of finished,
- the breed,
- the natural ability of your pup,
- the breeder,
….and the list goes on and on.
Let's say - just to address the OP's question - that all these individual dynamics were favorable/comparable.
DonF nailed it as far as how I do things here.
So, there is preliminary training.
Formal training here can take 2-4 months.
All the formal training from THE best trainer does not a brag dog make. The species, habitat, time of year are but a few considerations.
So that brings us back to the OPs question. Does "fully trained" mean the dog comes when called, loads up, is steady to wing, shot, fall, handles, retrieves (++)? If so, 2-4 months is about right, at least here - and in line with what gonehuntin said.
Now, if you are asking for a dog that handles, grouse, Huns, Bobwhite, etc. then you surely realize that the species, number of opportunities (bird #s), habitat AS WELL AS the amount of exposure/experience your dog gets is a factor.
Another aspect is the handler's understanding and self-discipline to adhere to the rules/instructions provided by the trainer. When you consider those last two aspects, I'm prepared to say it's anyone's guess how long that specific time to develop a "fully trained" dog is.
If your trainer is in the central mid-west and can train your dog on wild Bobwhite, that is a bonus BUT it won't serve you as well hunting grouse in Maine. Does that make said dog fully trained or mostly trained?
Buying a trained dog is a valid consideration for the mature hunter.
- your definition or the trainer's definition of finished,
- the breed,
- the natural ability of your pup,
- the breeder,
….and the list goes on and on.
Let's say - just to address the OP's question - that all these individual dynamics were favorable/comparable.
DonF nailed it as far as how I do things here.
So, there is preliminary training.
Formal training here can take 2-4 months.
All the formal training from THE best trainer does not a brag dog make. The species, habitat, time of year are but a few considerations.
So that brings us back to the OPs question. Does "fully trained" mean the dog comes when called, loads up, is steady to wing, shot, fall, handles, retrieves (++)? If so, 2-4 months is about right, at least here - and in line with what gonehuntin said.
Now, if you are asking for a dog that handles, grouse, Huns, Bobwhite, etc. then you surely realize that the species, number of opportunities (bird #s), habitat AS WELL AS the amount of exposure/experience your dog gets is a factor.
Another aspect is the handler's understanding and self-discipline to adhere to the rules/instructions provided by the trainer. When you consider those last two aspects, I'm prepared to say it's anyone's guess how long that specific time to develop a "fully trained" dog is.
If your trainer is in the central mid-west and can train your dog on wild Bobwhite, that is a bonus BUT it won't serve you as well hunting grouse in Maine. Does that make said dog fully trained or mostly trained?
Buying a trained dog is a valid consideration for the mature hunter.
- bamanicksbd
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
I attended a couple of training seminars with Rick Smith. He said it as simply and accurately as Ive ever heard. "It takes as long as it takes."
I really dont think there is an end point. Think about a football player. When is he "trained"? Well great highschool players still practice and learn. Great college players still przctice and learn. Do NFL players just show up on sunday and play? Well, the really successful ones dont. They still go to spring camp still practice plan and learn.
I think a good bird dog is the same as other elite athletes. He may be "trained" but he or she will still learn and improve from continued exposure and practice.
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I really dont think there is an end point. Think about a football player. When is he "trained"? Well great highschool players still practice and learn. Great college players still przctice and learn. Do NFL players just show up on sunday and play? Well, the really successful ones dont. They still go to spring camp still practice plan and learn.
I think a good bird dog is the same as other elite athletes. He may be "trained" but he or she will still learn and improve from continued exposure and practice.
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
I should have clarified !!,that time frame includes all dogs !! No matter the breed or even past history or even age of dog for that matter (imo) .The Time factor for the human at the other end of the lead from any breed or any age of dog ,with any previous history is where the factors of "Time" come in to the stats ...Biggest one being the age of the handler/owner !!
Then you can throw in all other factors in to the mix and come up with allsorts of soup that is either liked or not liked depending on what your taste is , but there will always be someone that wants more or less Salt or pepper . ....The dogs in the meanwhile do an excellent job over the centuries , just trying to figure us all out
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
The pointing dog Pros I know usually need a minimum of three months for WSF. Add more time for the trained retrive. All of that will come undone if the owner/handler will not enforce what has been done.Timewise65 wrote:If one has a well bred Brittany how long would it take a professional trainer to fully train that dog for hunting?
Now I know it varies based on the quality of the dog, the trainer, etc. But in my discussions with trainers and fellow hunters I am hearing a range for 1-3 months for a fully trained pointer! Does that sound about right?
I have had my retrievers fully trained and the time range on that is 9-12 months....but that's another story!
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Re: Time to Fully Train a Brittany
After early puppy training, my focus is on the retrieve. I have yet to work with a dog or dog breed I couldn't have pointing in reasonable time.
We here in north America have virtually bred retrieving out of our field trial dogs. Hence....
We here in north America have virtually bred retrieving out of our field trial dogs. Hence....